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Why do modern bikes feel so precise?

John Kat

Forum Sage
For those of you that have ridden back to back a "modern" bike and your favorite GS, you surely noticed that the modern bike feels much taughter, more "in one piece".
Most of us would just shrug their shoulders believing that "it's normal" every part of the bike has been improved over the years so what do you expect?
I personally wasn't satisfied with this kind of answer and over the last two years I started modifying a first and then a second GS 1000 S with components coming from more recent bikes.
First experiment: GSXR 11K front fork (RSU), monoshock rear swingarm, 17" wheels with radial tires.
Search no further, this bike was now in the modern era:)
As I changed all parameters at once except the frame, I could not pinpoint exactly what made the biggest improvement?
Second experiment: same bike but with GSXR 11G/H fork , 18" wheels with radial tires.
Result a large step backwards despite many hours spent on the front fork with stiffer springs and RaceTech gold valves.
Third experiment: my other GS 1000 S with GSXR 11K front fork but with OEM 19" wheel with crossply tire and full OEM rear (shocks, 17" wheel with crossply tire).
Result a very modern feel but with far too much trail and a mismatch between the front and rear suspension
Fourth experiment: back to the first bike with full GSXR 11K suspension front and rear ( like in N?1) but with 18" wheels shod with radial tires.
Result: very good just like in the first test.
Bike is very stable and feels very taught at all times.
My conclusion is the following:
1) the frame ( at least for the GS 1000) plays almost no role
2) the radial tires improve the feel a little but not enough to justify the modern feel.
3) the suspension plays the major role and specifically the cartridge type fork when associated with a De Carbon type shock at the rear.

Why is that?
The modern suspensions control the damping by letting the oil flow through a series of shims that deflect when the oil forces it's way through.
The GS bikes (and the first generation GSXRs) use an older principle that consists of letting the oil go through a small orifice.
On the modern bike, by carefully tuning the shims that are mounted in a stack, you can create different damping laws.
The law that is mostly used is called digressive because when the oil wants to move faster through the shims the resistance will increase at a slower rate than with a conventional shock absorber.
In practice you get a shock absorber that strongly damps the slow motions of the bike while allowing the bumps to be filtered out.
To convince yourself try shaking a modern bike up and down.
You would believe that the result would be a very uncomfortable ride.
Yet it's the exact contrary: the bike feels taught but not uncomfortable;)
 
For the forks at least I think it's more the stiffness rather than the damping. Triple clamp offset can play a big role too, I'd be interested to know what the difference there was.
 
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Interesting. The RaceTech gold valves are supposed to give you that same digressive damping, just like the cartridge fork.
 
Thanks for posting your experiences. Very useful info. Thumbs up! :)
 
Sonic Springs or Race Tech springs and emulators definately really help with the old bikes!
 
I don't really agree- I've ridden quite a few different bikes nothing newer than 2005 but none of them were as enjoyable as my GS's. I do agree that manufacturing has gotten better but it has gotten worse as well. The products produced today just are not built to last like these GS's were. These bikes were heavily over engineered. A big plus for those of us that love them. I get the same response from hot rodders about modern day muscle cars- meh- sure they have the HP and the CNC machining but very few if any will be on the road 40-50 years down the line. I have a 47 year old 283 SBC in my car right now and am very pleased with it's output. I can still rebore and rebuild it 3 more times. Something a modern day engine or motor bike will not be able to do.
Not to mention how overpriced the modern day toys are. I'll stick with what I've got.
Not because I'm not open minded, just because I know what last.
 
Sonic Springs or Race Tech springs and emulators definately really help with the old bikes!
Quite true!
I had both springs and emulators from RaceTech on my GSXR G/H fork.
It definitely helped but the result was not on par with a cartridge type fork:cool:
 
For the forks at least I think it's more the stiffness rather than the damping. Triple clamp offset can play a big role too, I'd be interested to know what the difference there was.
Sorry, it's not the stiffness as I tried .95 kg/mm springs in my GSXR G/H fork.
It helps for sure but it's not the answer...
The triple clamp offset will change the trail of the bike and thus the effort needed to point the bike in another direction.
It has no impact on how precise and taught the bike feels.
More trail gives the bike a truck like feel.
Exactly what I experienced with experiment N?3: a 19" wheel combined with a very small triple tree offset:eek:
 
I'd love to slice 150 - 200lbs from both of my bricks!
You'd be surprised at how light my GS 1000 feels with the 18" wheels and the full GSXR 11K suspension.
Here in setup N?3 probably the lightest but...without the cartridge type fork.
GS1000XP004_zps05411940.jpg

The same with the later fork and the 11R88 wheels ( from Posplayr)
Fourche11R89avecroue11R88005_zps17c3522b.jpg
 
If you want a bike that feels like it driving iteslf and all you do is sit there..then have the wife drive and sit biitch.
 
No Tom...A bike is made to be ridden. You know, a combined EXPERIENCE which involves some operator involvement.

To me, todays bikes are to over thought and absolutely boring. EFI, a light that signals if there dog sh!t in the road...blah blah blah. If I had a bike like that it wouldnt ever get ridden and would be unexciting. Like i said, if anyone wants a bike thats gonna do everything for you they are better off riding biitch. That way they can be unengaged and be able to gaze off into the fields and watch birdies fly by.
 
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