Dyna coil firing order 78 gs 1000 "Need Help"

[Coldeye_]

Just bought spent a couple hours searching for an answer that might not have been addressed yet.

I recently rebuilt a 1978 gs 1000 that I had running rather decent w old points and coils before a complete make over. I replaced the stock coils w/ a set of dyna green 3 ohm coils and red plug wires. I believe the part number is dc1-1. box not in sight at the moment. I followed the instructions to the best of my abillity and when I went to fire it up it ran like crap. my question is mostly about the firing order of the coils. My posts on the coils are facing forward and I have the left coil, clutch side running 1 an 4 cylinder. Rt side, throttle side, running 2 and 3 cylinder. Is this correct firing order. The bike runs as if it is completety out of ignition timing. Do the actual posts need to correspond to 1 and 4 cylinder or do they fire at the same time so this is not an issue. I am not running the resistors as I was told they were not necessary. Any help would be much appreciated. I also should add that I did check every wire and I am getting spark from each post on the coils. I also have brand new b8es plugs.

[BassCliff]

Hey howdy hey!

Mr. Coldeye_,

If you need one, there's a GS1000 manual on my little website for you to download.

It seems I have missed your first few posts and I'm a little late with the "official" unofficial welcome. Please pardon my tardiness. Here goes...

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)! :grin:

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the garage section via the GSR Hompage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr.

And here are some quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic maintenance needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.

***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html

You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.

And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com

Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm
*************End Quote*************
**********<quote Mr. bwringer>**********
Every GS850 has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting.

It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years.

It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile o-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)

Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)

Valve clearances (more important than most people think)

Carb/airbox boots

Airbox sealing

Air filter sealing

Petcock (install a NEW one)

On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)

On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.

Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
**********<end quote>**********
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer***************
http://denniskirk.com
Put in your bike model and see what they have.

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.

http://oldbikebarn.com seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.

OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

http://www.babbittsonline.com/
Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.

http://bikebandit.com
Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.

http://flatoutmotorcycles.com
Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.

http://alpha-sports.com
Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc.:
http://mcmaster.com
Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.

http://motorcycleseatcovers.com
Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.

http://newenough.com
You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************

Here are a few extra links:

Cycle-Re-Cycle Part 2
http://crc2onlinecatalog.com/

The ever popular Z1 Enterprises
http://www.z1enterprises.com

The Rice Paddy (salvage/used)
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com

Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

[Steve]

You are correct in your assumption about the coils. Both wires fire at the same time. It is only important that one coil is connected to 1&4, the other to 2&3. The left/right orientation is appropriate for stock, and will also apply to your upgrade as long as all the other wires are connected properly.

You say the bike was running decently before "a complete makeover". What all does that include? If you had other parts off the engine, make sure they are all put back on properly. If you had the cams out, that would be my first area to look. Make sure they are properly timed with the crank and each other before suspecting ignition.

On the other hand, if your "complete makeover" was limited to replacing ignition components, that limits your suspect area to ignition components.

Another question...did it ever run "right" after the rebuild and before the ignition upgrade, or did you do both at the same time. If you did both at the same time, your problem might not be ignition. This is where I would suspect that cam timing might be off.

.

[trippivot]

down on the crank the inner rotor has a tiny magnet it points to the pick up coil that fires at that time.

1&4 F mark lined up and the little magnet in the rotor pointing LEFT

verify that is the way it is set up. then move on to wiring , kill switch, safety circuits etc....

[Coldeye_]

Thanks for the responses and the welcome again.

I have not had a chance to get into the ignition again, but will be looking at it tomorrow. The coil wire situation is now better understood and will get sorted. I believe my trouble may be in the points and the timing. I have a new set and it was on the to do list anyways. It is possible when I tore the motor out sanitized and painted it, the combo of pressure washing and painting could have made probs with the mechanical advancer as well. I will get back soon with an update. If anyone else cares to chime in I am open for trouble shooting. here is a pic of the project.

[KiwiGS]

Coldeye. Love the bike!.
That engine looks wicked. What if any engine work have you done?
Cheers

[chef1366]

Put the old coils on and see how it runs.

[SqDancerLynn1]

That is one teriffic looking GS. I have the dyna green coils on my 850 to. I still have the points, but I installed a 2 ohm balast resistor on the 12V line for the required 5 ohms to work with the points. Are the coils getting hot ? You should run the resistor caps or the auto type suppression wires

[TheCafeKid]

Yah i was just going to say, if you didnt pull the points set up in favor of a Dyna or similar ignition system, you're going to have a problem, and a soon fatal one if you leave it like that. From my limited knowlege of the system set up, the OEM points ignition requires a 5ohm set up with the coils. You're now down to 3 ohms with your new coils. From what ive read you're better off with a higher resistance rating than a lower one. I know its direct current instead of AC (which im more familiar with) but the principal should still apply. in working with amplification equipment, its very dangerous to your equipment to run a lower than rated resistance. Overheating and subsequent failure is the result. you'd be suprised how many people dont realize what they've done to their equipment by hooking up a 4 ohm amp head to a series run 4x12 8ohm cabinet. (resulting in an unstable, unbalanced 2.6 ohm set up...but neither here nor there) The amp goes poop.

Fantastic looking bike, and to cap it off, in my humble opinion, i would, were i you, bite the bullet and pick up a Dyna ignition kit. Problem solved. OR hook up your old coils, OR even still do as Lynn said and hook up atwo ohm ballast resistor. Any of those suggestions, provided your cam timing is correct, should solve your problem.

[Coldeye_]

Well after calling dynatek, I decided to buy a match to my dyna coils w/ a dyna ignition. It appears There is a definite problem w/ running 3 ohm coils w/ points and no resistor to take up the slack. I installed to ignition just have to wire it up. I'm hoping this solves my probs. This project has fought me hard from step one. Just want to finish up and ride it. Progree to follow.

Coldeye. Love the bike!.
That engine looks wicked. What if any engine work have you done?
Cheers

Thanks for the nice words. All stock engine except the new carbs and now new iginition system. Pipe of course.

[TheCafeKid]

Where'd ya get it? If you got it from them they prolly charged you too much..heheh.

Excellent choice tho man. As said that is a fantastic looking project you've got going, and the Dynatek ignition set up will suprise you. It will give you hotter fatter more consistant spark, and wake up that motor a bit, (like it needs it..pfft lol)

[chef1366]

Orange County CA?

[Coldeye_]

Where'd ya get it? If you got it from them they prolly charged you too much..heheh.

Excellent choice tho man. As said that is a fantastic looking project you've got going, and the Dynatek ignition set up will suprise you. It will give you hotter fatter more consistant spark, and wake up that motor a bit, (like it needs it..pfft lol)

$108.00 new from a local supplier. Don't think that can be beat. Friend of a friend deal that actually worked out. Let me hope this was the last problem to get over. I'm patient, but as stated before this thing has fought me from day 1. Just want to work the bugs out then maybe put it on the track to play superbike early eighties style. Have my eye on some late seventies early eighties dirt bikes I would like to work on and restore.

Yes, Orange County, Ca.

[TheCafeKid]

no 108 cant be beat. That ive found anyway. I know how you feel about being fought all the way. Imagine how real superbike builders must have felt at first. Suprising they didnt just toss it away. Course they probably had better tools than us.

[Coldeye_]

Well happy to report the Yoshi replica is on the street. Still needs some lights, and some tidding up, but this was a huge hurdle to get over. It seems the coil issue was solved w/ the matching dyna ignition. The new carbs,cables and ignition make for a very smooth operating bike. If any one was following this thread make the investment in the dyna ignition. I do have a question about timing if anyone knows...

I noticed the dyna ignition plate does not have any timing indexs on it. I believe I can dial my timing in better if I had an index to match with the timing marks on the mechanical advancer. Without an index, I am completey guesing at timing, especially on the 2 3 cylinders. Am I missing something or is this it. Any info or ideas appreciated. I really want to ride tomorrow, dyna will not be open until Monday.