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A Broken Valve Shim and It's Aftermath

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    #31
    The problem is that most aftermarket gaskets on a GS engine DON'T seal up. Lots of history on leaking base and head gaskets. This isn't your average Chevy V8. Not as many bikes still around and very few quality vendors making parts for our bikes.

    Lots of online OEM Suzuki parts vendors. This is one I use but do your research and you'll find many others.



    Price shop OEM and you will find differences.

    1980 GS1000GT (Daily rider with a 1983 1100G engine)
    1998 Honda ST1100 (Daily long distance rider)
    1982 GS850GLZ (Daily rider when the weather is crap)

    Darn, with so many daily riders it's hard to decide which one to jump on next.

    JTGS850GL aka Julius

    GS Resource Greetings

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by TeamDar View Post
      That is not a OEM Suzuki shim. Has anyone shattered a genuine Suzuki shim from the tappet depressing tool causing the shim to "slam" into the cam lobe? Just curious.
      I probably should have included a few more details, but that's not even an aftermarket Suzuki shim.

      That is a Kawasaki shim, not sure if it's OEM or aftermarket. However, the principle of shim changing is the same. The lifter tool slipped off the side of the bucket when the shim was not quite in place. The shim was straddling the lip on one side of the bucket and the cam just punched the shim into the space below.

      Not quite positive if the shim would be damaged if it slammed into the cam while fully-supported (and fully-seated) by the bucket, but because they are fully hardened, they are rather brittle. They might be saved by the fact that there would actually be no contact, as long as there was the specified 0.03-0.08mm of clearance, but I can guarantee that they break if one side is up on the side of the bucket.

      .
      sigpic
      mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
      hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
      #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
      #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
      Family Portrait
      Siblings and Spouses
      Mom's first ride
      Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
      (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by JTGS850GL View Post
        The problem is that most aftermarket gaskets on a GS engine DON'T seal up. Lots of history on leaking base and head gaskets. This isn't your average Chevy V8. Not as many bikes still around and very few quality vendors making parts for our bikes.

        Lots of online OEM Suzuki parts vendors. This is one I use but do your research and you'll find many others.



        Price shop OEM and you will find differences.
        Interesting, good to know. I cancelled that z1 order (or at least i hope it got cancelled in time) and ordered them all from G&S.

        I talked to Chef, and he is cleaning the head, lapping the valves and doing the seals for me before sending it out. I got it all apart today and honed the cylinders. My rings look fine and measure up fine, surprisingly enough, but i'm going to go ahead and replace them anyway. One of the 6mm bolts (10mm head) that helps hold the head on was seized and snapped right flush with the bottom of the recess it sits in in the cylinder block, and then to make things worse i snapped an easy out (the square kind) in there, so i'll be having a fun time tomorrow getting that out of there.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by jrobert94 View Post
          Interesting, good to know. I cancelled that z1 order (or at least i hope it got cancelled in time) and ordered them all from G&S.

          I talked to Chef, and he is cleaning the head, lapping the valves and doing the seals for me before sending it out. I got it all apart today and honed the cylinders. My rings look fine and measure up fine, surprisingly enough, but i'm going to go ahead and replace them anyway. One of the 6mm bolts (10mm head) that helps hold the head on was seized and snapped right flush with the bottom of the recess it sits in in the cylinder block, and then to make things worse i snapped an easy out (the square kind) in there, so i'll be having a fun time tomorrow getting that out of there.
          If Chef is doing that head work why are you ordering shims now? Everything will have changed by the time you get it back.
          sigpic

          Don't say can't, as anything is possible with time and effort, but, if you don't have time things get tougher and require more effort.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by tatu View Post
            If Chef is doing that head work why are you ordering shims now? Everything will have changed by the time you get it back.
            in a perfect world you could get bill to bench shim it and all you would have to do is the reassembly.
            makes a person go hmmmmmmmmm

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by tatu View Post
              If Chef is doing that head work why are you ordering shims now? Everything will have changed by the time you get it back.
              I didn't say anything about shims. If you're referring to the Z1/G&S order, that was for gaskets.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by blowerbike View Post
                in a perfect world you could get bill to bench shim it and all you would have to do is the reassembly.
                makes a person go hmmmmmmmmm
                Of course
                sigpic

                Don't say can't, as anything is possible with time and effort, but, if you don't have time things get tougher and require more effort.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by jrobert94 View Post
                  Interesting, good to know. I cancelled that z1 order (or at least i hope it got cancelled in time) and ordered them all from G&S.
                  Good luck with G&S.

                  Many of us used to use them, and I would promote them any chance that I got, but they have screwed a few of us, so we no longer advise their services. Yes, they do have the cheapest prices on most items, and the shipping charges are on the fair side, but the (poor, lack of) service really offsets that.

                  There are a few personal favorites, but I think the one that most of us are in favor of at the moment is Parts Outlaw. Overall, their prices are only a little higher than G&S, but they do have one practice that I don't care for. Any of the really inexpensive pieces get a bit spendy. They have a minimum price of $2.49, so anything that might cost 89 cents will cost you 2.49, instead. If you are only ordering a couple of these items as part of a larger order, the extra couple of dollars will not matter much, but I recently placed an order with a BUNCH of them, and the order was mostly made up of all those small parts. I compared prices with G&S, the difference was over $20. I called Parts Outlaw and expressed my concern and my desire to NOT have to place an order with G&S. They asked for my shopping list (which I already had on a spreadsheet for comparison) and I provided it. A few hours later, they called to say they would match G&S's prices, would I like to place the order now? The answer was, of course, an overwhelming YES!!

                  By they way, Parts Outlaw has a flat-rate shipping charge of $9.99, which isn't all that bad, but if you look for the promo box on the order page and enter the word BANG, you get free shipping. This hidden promo has been going for at least a couple of years, I have used it several times.

                  .
                  sigpic
                  mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                  hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                  #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                  #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                  Family Portrait
                  Siblings and Spouses
                  Mom's first ride
                  Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                  (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I test rode it first and travelled about 6 klms. Then I told the son to have a ride and see what he thought. Got a phone call from son..........no I thought are you all right did you drop it? Story from son was carbs still playing up, he said he was going about 130klm/hr when bike rear wheel locked up, he then pulled clutch in and came to a stop. Tried to start bike wouldnt turn over. So I hooked the trailer on and collected bike, engine was seized would not turn over, we were both devastated. I didnt take too many photos of pulling it down to find the cause because how upset we were. When we took the valve cover off we found number 3 intake valve shim shattered. All the valve shim gaps were in spec, this shim was an aftermarket shim all the other shims were the old original suzuki looking shims. This one was a brand new aftermarket shim I had purchased off Z1 or a company in Aus that Pete had told me about. Cannot be sure which one. Now I have found another post about a shattered shim on this forum also an aftermarket.

                    http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=219760




                    This was the issue with my broken shim, still unclear why it shattered, but it can happen, not a very nice feeling.
                    ________________
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by ged; 07-26-2017, 02:10 AM.
                    GED

                    1980 GS850G (BLACK)
                    http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=185562
                    1980 GS850G (RED) http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=219169
                    1980 GS850G (SILVER) (Coming soon)

                    There are old riders and there are bold riders but there are no old bold riders!!!!!!


                    Comment


                      #40
                      Not a good thing to hear. I surely hope that there isn't a new issue with aftermarket shims showing up.

                      1980 GS1000GT (Daily rider with a 1983 1100G engine)
                      1998 Honda ST1100 (Daily long distance rider)
                      1982 GS850GLZ (Daily rider when the weather is crap)

                      Darn, with so many daily riders it's hard to decide which one to jump on next.

                      JTGS850GL aka Julius

                      GS Resource Greetings

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Before this thread started, I have only seen two cases of shattered shims.

                        One was my Kawasaki. The shim shattered when the tool slipped off the bucket while the shim was not fully seated.

                        The second was in another member's bike. He missed a shift, found a false neutral and floated a valve (or three).

                        I have not examined my inventory of shims, but I would guess that about half of them are "aftermarket", I don't think that really matters.

                        .
                        sigpic
                        mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                        hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                        #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                        #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                        Family Portrait
                        Siblings and Spouses
                        Mom's first ride
                        Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                        (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Is there any reason why the OEM shims have a chamfer around the upper and lower edges, whilst the aftermarket shims are straight edged?
                          GED

                          1980 GS850G (BLACK)
                          http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=185562
                          1980 GS850G (RED) http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=219169
                          1980 GS850G (SILVER) (Coming soon)

                          There are old riders and there are bold riders but there are no old bold riders!!!!!!


                          Comment


                            #43
                            production cost?

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Help let the oil out?
                              sigpic

                              Don't say can't, as anything is possible with time and effort, but, if you don't have time things get tougher and require more effort.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by ged View Post
                                Is there any reason why the OEM shims have a chamfer around the upper and lower edges, whilst the aftermarket shims are straight edged?
                                having the chamfer makes it alot easier to flick the shim out using a small flat screw driver some aftermarket shims are a pain to get out
                                genuine ones seem easier to lift ive found

                                ozman

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