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Weird engine noise, tapping. 1982 GS650GL

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    #31
    Hi, I´ve read your entire post and it seems too odd ... the problem has to be something else .... is there ANY sign that the piston might be touching a valve or head gasket...
    On your original video the engine seems ok ontil you rev it up...so
    I would also consider measuring the valve springs just to make sure that they have enough tension to jump back into place before the piston reaches. Also the camshaft could have something wrong with it, or some sort of timing problem..... But all this can be discarded by looking really closely to any posible wear on the piston itself.

    Good luck

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      #32
      JCT. There is no noticeable wear on the pistons where the valves might hit them. I haven't measured the valve springs yet, but I can definitely do that next.

      I had ordered a new bearing for the #4 rod and installed the rod and bearings today, used plastigage to get a measurement of the oil clearance, and I did the same for all the other three rods. The clearance was between .075-.08mm for all of them which is right at the service limit! The oil clearance should be within .024-.048mm. The service limit is .08mm so I'm right at the limit for all four rods! When I installed all four rods I measured the oil clearance and they were all within spec. Now they're all out of spec.


      Maybe I just didn't put enough oil on the bearings during installation and they all wore down a bit? The bearings all do look worn down a little as if the coating wore off because they each show the brass color that I din't see when they were new. So all my bearings wore down which I may have ruined my crankshaft again by wearing down the journals.

      Perhaps I can just order a thicker bearing for all rods. There are a few different options for bearings depending on which rod number or crankshaft journal number. My crankshaft journals are all #2. My rods are also all #2. According to the chart in the service manual on 3-41 that means I should order all Brown bearings. But if I order a Yellow bearing it is up to .004mm thicker, so perhaps that could fill in some of the extra oil clearance.


      I kind of feel like giving up at this point. Help me out, fellas. What can I do?
      Last edited by Guest; 10-06-2015, 01:33 AM.

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        #33
        The extra wear you are seeing is probably from metal debris floating around that caused the #4 to go out. Have the crank cleaned and journals polished and spec'd out to see exactly what you will need. I think it will be worth the extra $$ to have that done. Again, any reputable shop should be able to clean the crank and polish the journals

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          #34
          I will look into having that done. Thanks, 60ratrod.

          Comment


            #35
            Finally back to work on the old girl. I bought yet another replacement crankshaft off ebay and all new bearings for the crankshaft and rods. I've had the upper and lower crankcases cleaned out at a machine shop, so the oil passageways are clear and the cases are clean. I checked the oil clearance on all the rod and crankshaft journals and all are within spec and I'm ready to put her back together.

            I'm going to be using moly paste on all journals, as per a mechanic friend of mine who says that's probably the mistake I made every time. Hopefully the moly paste will keep the journals and bearings well lubricated until oil starts pumping though the bike.

            I'm excited... yet wary.

            Wish me luck

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by William Groebe View Post

              I'm excited... yet wary.
              I'd say you are also determined and brave. Give yourself credit.
              1983 GS 1100 Guided Laser
              1983 GS 1100 G
              2000 Suzuki Intruder 1500, "Piggy Sue"
              2000 GSF 1200 Bandit (totaled in deer strike)
              1986 Suzuki Cavalcade GV 1400 LX (SOLD)

              I find working on my motorcycle mildly therapeutic when I'm not cursing.

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                #37
                Yes,your determination is extraordinary. It's way past time for you to catch a break!
                1981 gs650L

                "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

                Comment


                  #38
                  Just some personal practice when i assemble a motor that might help you out. This is to help get as much life from every part.

                  DO NOT touch any of the journals or bearing surfaces with your bare hands no matter how clean. As the natural oils on your hands will clog the bearing surface and will not give the oil anything to cling to. Use moly paste thin coat or a liberal coat of thick assembly lube(USE GLOVES). Seriously, i have actually seen fingerprints burned into bearings from people touching them.

                  Regardless of a brand new crank or not, have the journals polished just to ensure the best surface possible and then blow a cleaner through all of the oil passages followed by air to ensure that they are clean. You would be amazed by the junk i have seen come out of both brand new cranks and camshafts that were "cleaned" at the factory before shipping.

                  Plastigauge kind of works, but if you can find someone with a set of telescoping gauges and micrometer. That way you can get precise measurements of rod ends, crank journals, bearing races and torqued bearings(torque bearings in without crank). Get measurements at a couple different positions to check for out of round.

                  Make sure your source of oil flow is in good working order, someone else will have to step in on how to check that part out and what is within spec, as my general rule of thumb is replace every time.

                  When you get it assembled, let it idle for 5mins and then hold around 1,800rpms for 5mins to seat bearings and to flush the assembly lube or moly paste out. I wouldn't go much longer with an air cooled engine or the heat may become uneven or overheat certain parts particularly the center 2 cylinders.

                  I am always looking to learn and i hope the information i have picked up over the years helps. As everyone else has stated, i commend your patience and perseverance. Keep up the good work.
                  Then flush the oil and replace filter. Ride it nicely for about 10 miles and then evenly run it harder after that.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Thanks for the advice, edgeofvamp.

                    I've already put the lower end together. I didn't have the crank journals polished, but I cleaned them real well with a microfiber rag and parts cleaner.
                    I blew air through all the oil holes of the crankshaft and everything seemed fine.
                    I installed the bearings with gloves, not because I knew about the oils of my fingers, but because the damn bearings have sharp edges, man!

                    I will follow your advice on breaking it in once it's all back together.

                    Thanks again

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by William Groebe View Post
                      Thanks for the advice, edgeofvamp.

                      I've already put the lower end together. I didn't have the crank journals polished, but I cleaned them real well with a microfiber rag and parts cleaner.
                      I blew air through all the oil holes of the crankshaft and everything seemed fine.
                      I installed the bearings with gloves, not because I knew about the oils of my fingers, but because the damn bearings have sharp edges, man!

                      I will follow your advice on breaking it in once it's all back together.

                      Good luck man. This is a painful thread to read and I am in awe of your perseverance through a bitch of a problem. I hope you get your oil pump tested/sorted before you start her back up.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        If the clutch is already fitted it's a bit late, but it's worth turning the oil pump by hand to get the oil circulated, or even wind the engine over by hand with a socket on a speed brace (without the plugs in) before starting the engine. I'm not sure a lack of moly grease would have caused a bearing to wear away just like that, as long they were oiled initially. Oil might take a few seconds to reach a certain bearing on the crank, but not days, and to happen twice? When it's first up and running, can you undo the plug on the side of the engine to check for oil pressure?

                        I'll be very interested in the outcome, and fair play to you for your determination.
                        1996 GSF1200 — Pretty Much Standard.
                        1983 GSX750ES — Cafe Racer Project
                        1980 GS550E — 673 Conversion.
                        1980 GS400 — Cafe Racer???

                        http://biketech7.blogspot.com.au

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                          #42
                          Argh. I ran into another snag. The replacement crankshaft I bought had the rotor already attached, but no bolt on the end. No problem, I'll just use the bolt from my original crankshaft, but wait... It's not screwing in. I know it's the right size. 12mm 1.25

                          I tried a smaller bolt, jut in case, but it was way too small.

                          What do I do? Tap the thread? If I do that I'll have to take the whole thing apart again to get out any metal shavings right?
                          Thoughts?

                          Comment


                            #43
                            What year and model bike did the replacement crank come from? When you say it wont screw in, do you mean it's starts but gets tight or wont even start.

                            That starter gear looks a tad small as well but maybe it's just the camera angle..
                            Last edited by JTGS850GL; 05-28-2016, 05:51 PM.

                            1980 GS1000GT (Daily rider with a 1983 1100G engine)
                            1998 Honda ST1100 (Daily long distance rider)
                            1982 GS850GLZ (Daily rider when the weather is crap)

                            Darn, with so many daily riders it's hard to decide which one to jump on next.

                            JTGS850GL aka Julius

                            GS Resource Greetings

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                              #44
                              My bike is a 1982 GS650GL. The crank is from a 1981 GS650GL.
                              The bolt slides in about an inch or so until it reaches the threads at which point I attempt to screw it in, but it doesn't catch the threads. It spins and spins and goes nowhere. I have two other crankshafts that have both been ruined, one from a 1982 and another from a 1981. The bolt screws into both of those crankshafts just fine, but i won't fit into the crankshaft that I need it to screw into.

                              Should I buy a tap to clean out the threads?

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Argh indeed! The start of the the tapped hole might have got buggered up with someone pulling off rotor with gear puller. Might need a touch up with tap - coat tap with thick grease to catch any burrs. Hopefully you can find someone to borrow the tap like a foreign car repair place.
                                1981 gs650L

                                "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

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