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    trouble with starting the gas gas

    so the gas gas forum is of little help, like hardly anyone replies at all. anyway, i have managed to get this thing to start, run, ride and charge. however, it does not like to start without some assistance from either being jumped off of a charger or my truck(not running of course). the battery is brand new, and runs out of steam rather quickly when cranking, like something is taking more of the cca from the starter. is it possible the battery is weak from being in the cold on a maintainer or should i look into a relay mod, either coil or starter? or should i rip apart the starter and give it a good cleaning?

    #2
    OK, I know this is going to sound stupid, but what the heck is a "gas gas"?

    1980 GS1000GT (Daily rider with a 1983 1100G engine)
    1998 Honda ST1100 (Daily long distance rider)
    1982 GS850GLZ (Daily rider when the weather is crap)

    Darn, with so many daily riders it's hard to decide which one to jump on next.

    JTGS850GL aka Julius

    GS Resource Greetings

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      #3
      jumpin jack flash?
      no thats a gas gas gas
      1983 GS 550 LD
      2009 BMW K1300s

      Comment


        #4
        check your ground
        if it will start from a boost the battery is likely not good.
        Plenty of charging systems die trying to maintain a battery thats past its service life.
        1983 GS 550 LD
        2009 BMW K1300s

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          #5
          Originally posted by JTGS850GL View Post
          OK, I know this is going to sound stupid, but what the heck is a "gas gas"?
          Inquiring minds want to know......had to look it up.

          Gas Gas is a Spanishmotorcycle manufacturer, specialising in off-road motorbikes. Gas Gas are best known for their trials bikes, although they also make successful enduro and quad bikes.

          Gas Gas emerged from the financial demise of Bultaco when two agents, Narcìs Casas and Josep Pibernat, found themselves with a shop but no product to sell. So they embarked on a programme to manufacture trials motorbikes for sale in their shop.


          I know the Bultaco name. My friend, as a kid lusted for a Combat Wombat. But I dont see a bike like that in Mr 60ratrods signature.

          The name Gas Gas literally means "to gas it" (to accelerate, give it the gas, turn the throttle - to go faster.) The Gas Gas founders have, at times, expressed misgivings about the chosen name inasmuch as that name causes confusion outside Spain. Others have joked that Gas Gas are so good that they had to name them twice. The slogan "Gas Gas = Fast Fast" was used by the US importer, Gas Gas North America, from 1999–2002 to try to help people understand the unique name.


          or is it a pet name for your 109. If it were a real GASGAS trials bike I doubt it would have a battery.....
          Last edited by bonanzadave; 12-27-2016, 12:05 PM.
          82 1100 EZ (red)

          "You co-opting words of KV only thickens the scent of your BS. A thief and a putter-on of airs most foul. " JEEPRUSTY

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            #6
            nope, the m109's name is caboose. i didn't add the 03 gas gas ec400 fse to my sig since it's mostly a fix-n-flip project that i got from my buddy who just had a baby back in september and is moving to virginia on orders in march for $200. you know what they say, naming something only makes it harder to get rid of(or eat-dad used to raise beef cattle). and gas gas for a time, and still kinda does, made enduros/dual sport bikes.

            the battery is brand new as of october iirc, and is a 7-family agm battery. and i've only had this thing running really for trouble shooting, like trying to get it running, testing the charging system, and now to burn off what ever gas has built in the cylinder from trying to get it to cold start worth a damn. i did get the battery from a company called pacific power batteries, and was the best battery i've had in it. the other 3 were ghettozone duracrap gold batteries, and all 3 of them were junk. the battery that came with it was the first duracrap gold battery. maybe it's possible i need to get a 7-family battery that has more cca's?

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              #7
              Here's some photos of it:

              Right after i got it before working on it:



              And as it is today:

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                #8
                i confirmed the battery is good today. i took it off the bike and tender last night and left it sit inside on my plastic tool box over night and went back to pacific power batteries to have it tested. it had 12.76 resting vdc and 150 cca with their testers. so i yanked the cam cover and checked the valves, and only 1 intake was a little tight. not sure since i don't have a proper mm feeler gauge. it has .152 and .127 mm leaves, and the .127 goes in, but the .152 doesn't, so that shouldn't be too far out on ONE valve to cause a hard start on a 4 valve one lung motor. so i then went through EVERY starter connection minus the key and start button connections and cleaned them including the battery ground on the engine and applying dielectric grease, and it still cranks slow, but the choke function seems to be a lot better since it seemed to be back firing through the throttle body. any suggestions as to what else to look at? could it be bad gas since i don't know exactly how old the gas is that's in the tank?

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                  #9
                  i should probably mention the parts that have probably been needlessly shotgunned at this thing:

                  fuel pump relay-new
                  coil-new
                  crank sensor-new(it is fuel injected, the old one disconnected easy, probably not bad, needed for spark and fuel pump when cranking and running)
                  r/r-new(i found a blown charging system maxi fuse, may not have been bad)
                  spark plug-new(buddy pulled the old one and just stuffed the plug boot back in and didn't say anything about it)
                  air filter-new(kinda haphazardly stuffed in, no cage. gotta figure out what to do about that)
                  battery-new and totally required(screw duralast crap! lesson learned here)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You have a voltmeter? Of course you do.

                    Check the voltage at the battery while you are trying to start the bike.

                    Also check the voltage at the coil while trying to start the bike.

                    Have you done anything to the carb? If the voltages are ok, and you say valve clearance is good, only thing left is the carb.
                    Since it has apparently started and run somewhat recently, it might just need a good cleaning, not a full rebuild.

                    .
                    sigpic
                    mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                    hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                    #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                    #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
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                    Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                    (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by 60ratrod View Post
                      could it be bad gas since i don't know exactly how old the gas is that's in the tank?
                      I doubt bad gas would make it crank slow but that would have been one of the first things I would have done. Been burned by that toooo many times. Gas goes bad fast !
                      82 1100 EZ (red)

                      "You co-opting words of KV only thickens the scent of your BS. A thief and a putter-on of airs most foul. " JEEPRUSTY

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                        #12
                        Steve- i actually hadn't thought about that. However, the coil uses a weather-pak style connector. Any ideas? I think i have a probe in storage for my meter, but it breaks through the insulation. Also, it's efi. If it was carb'd, i would have done the full monty on it. I'll look for diy injector cleaning.

                        Bonanzadave- I'm not blaming bad gas for the slow cranking. I'm blaming bad gas cause even when i boost the battery, it takes more cranking than it should to get this thing to want to live

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                          #13
                          Does it have a automatic compression release? On my honda 450, the compression is to high for the stater to spin the motor at full compression, so they built a centripetal release that bumps the exhaust valve a little bit to bleed off some pressure. Mine is adjustable, to much bump and not enough compression to fire it, to little compression then it won't spin. I would check your compression first and also valve clearances, these singles can eat valves quick which then leave a valve hanging open.

                          Thumpertalk is a pretty good place for bike advice.
                          78 GS1000 Yosh replica racer project
                          82 Kat 1000 Project
                          05 CRF450x
                          10 990 ADV-R The big dirt bike

                          P.S I don't check PM to often, email me if you need me.

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                            #14
                            first timer- I've checked the valves and they were all within spec iirc. I think it does have a decompressor because of a small port on the left side of the cylinder head, but I don't know what it would look like so I will have to look into the valvetrain breakdown exploded view that is in the manual that I have in the next few days. it does seem like it has a lot of compression making it bog the starter when starting from dead cold. that's something else I will look into. I will note that even trying to open the throttle more to try to blow out any build up of gas from cranking the motor over seems to make cranking the bike even harder, not easier, so it may all be in the decompressor like you suggested.

                            however, after chasing down and cleaning just about every connection in the starter circuit including the battery terminals and main battery ground, minus the ignition key and start switch on the right switch pod, the starting cycle seems much more lively. and by lively it doesn't spin any faster, just it seems to try to fire a bit better. so I think what I am going to do, aside from looking into the decompressor, is clean a lot of the other contacts that would play into the starting function, including removing the ecu and using contact cleaner on those connections.

                            so before I connect a meter to this bike again, these are the things I will look into as time after work and weather will allow. I really am starting to miss my garage. I'd love to leave working outside in the elements at work.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              so after trying to research how to adjust the auto decompressor I found something interesting: the cam chain tensioners make the chain too tight and make it hard to start. and it seems that the decompressors were also prone to failure. I think i'll be looking into the drz manual chain tensioner, since that's what the suggested fix is. i'll also be looking at the decompressor since I'll have slack in the chain incase I need to replace the exhaust cam with the later model cam.
                              Last edited by Guest; 01-04-2017, 12:40 AM.

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