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Oil with the best ant ifoaming prperties

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    Oil with the best ant ifoaming prperties

    Looking fir recommendations on an oil with the absolute best anti foaming ratings. Must be ok for wet clutches. And / or what additives can be added to oil to enhance the anti foaming. Stopped at a semi truck supply and they told me tha Navistar additive for diesel engine wasnt made anymore. I also heard thatb adding silicon oil would do the trick. I want the best anti foaming oil to run in my 73 Yammy TX750.
    MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
    1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

    NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


    I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

    #2
    Don't have any suggestions on the oil, Chuck, but I do have a question.

    The "usual" cause of foaming is having the oil level too high and the crank is whipping it up.
    Any chance that is the case here, or is there something inherent in the TX750 that foams the oil?

    .
    sigpic
    mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
    hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
    #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
    #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
    Family Portrait
    Siblings and Spouses
    Mom's first ride
    Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
    (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

    Comment


      #3
      Where I work we use Viscoplex anti foaming additive for hydraulic fluid to reduce foaming. We were having issues with the foaming on a batch to batch bases with the oil we get from Quaker Chemical and they sent us the Viscoplex to shut up our complaints.
      Ed

      To measure is to know.

      Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

      Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

      Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

      KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

      Comment


        #4
        More to consider than anti-foam properties. There is also ZDDP protection, type of base-stocks used, additive packages, compatibility with seals ect.
        Here is a technical paper on synthetic esters for lubricants. Tom NJ ESTERS IN SYNTHETIC LUBRICANTS By T. G. Schaefer In the simplest terms, esters can be defined as the reaction products of acids and alcohols. Thousands of different kinds of esters are commercially produced for a broad...

        Nevertheless, esters are often used in combination with PAOs in full synthetic motor oils in order to balance the effect on seals, solubilize additives, reduce volatility, and improve energy efficiency through higher lubricity. The percentage of ester used can vary anywhere from 5 to 25% depending upon the desired properties and the type of ester employed.
        If were mine to decide, I would probably look into Redline engine oils.
        De-stinking Penelope http://thegsresources.com/_forum/sho...d.php?t=179245

        http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...35#post1625535

        Comment


          #5
          I know this one. It's the oil that never gets an oil thread started
          97 R1100R
          Previous
          80 GS850G, 79 Z400B, 85 R100RT, 80 Z650D, 76 CB200

          Comment


            #6
            Steve, the TX is a dry sump engine. What happens is the counter balancer sytstems lobes whip the oil as its running down the cam chain tunnel and what little does accumulate in the sump for the scavenger pump to send it back up to the oil tank. once its frothed up the pup sucks air and thus the top end gets no oil...then youve got smoked cam journal blocks and cam ends.

            I want to ride it but I want to be sure im doing all I can to prevent frothing and scavenger pump from loosing suction.

            So to answer your question...yes its an inherant problem to the bikes engine that causes the concerns here.
            MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
            1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

            NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


            I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

            Comment


              #7
              Anyone have any solid knowledge of the Silicon Oil as an additive to prevent oil foaming????
              MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
              1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

              NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


              I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by chuck hahn View Post
                Steve, the TX is a dry sump engine. ... So to answer your question...yes its an inherant problem to the bikes engine that causes the concerns here.
                Thanks.

                I learn something here just about every time I log on.

                ,
                sigpic
                mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                Family Portrait
                Siblings and Spouses
                Mom's first ride
                Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by chuck hahn View Post
                  Anyone have any solid knowledge of the Silicon Oil as an additive to prevent oil foaming????
                  Chuck,

                  I really don't think anyone here is going to have a definitive answer for you. I'd just buy a good synthetic, stay away from the redline, limit my miles and hope for the best.
                  '20 Ducati Multistrada 1260S, '93 Ducati 750SS, '01 SV650S, '07 DL650, '01 DR-Z400S, '80 GS1000S, '85 RZ350

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Try some air cooled Porshe forums for info.
                    1978 Gs1085 compliments of Popy Yosh, Bandit 1200 wheels and front end, VM33 Smoothbores, Yosh exhaust, braced frame, ported polished head
                    1983 Gs1100ESD, rebuild finished! Body paintwork happening winter 2017

                    I would rather trust my bike to a technician that reads the service manual than some backyardigan that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix things.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Silicone oil as an additive does not strike me as something that would be friendly to a wet clutch. Not sure though.

                      I agree with Rich that your best bet would likely be use a high-quality modern motorcycle-specific synthetic and stay off the racetrack. Modern oils are pure science fiction compared to what was available in the '70s.

                      You could also see what you could cobble up in the way of a clear oil tank or some sort of sight glass. That way, you can experiment a little and see what kinds of conditions bring on foaming. You may find it's no longer a problem, or only happens at X rpm for Y minutes, or with certain oils, etc.
                      1983 GS850G, Cosmos Blue.
                      2005 KLR685, Aztec Pink - Turd II.3, the ReReReTurdening
                      2015 Yamaha FJ-09, Magma Red Power Corrupts...
                      Eat more venison.

                      Please provide details. The GSR Hive Mind is nearly omniscient, but not yet clairvoyant.

                      Celeriter equita, converteque saepe.

                      SUPPORT THIS SITE! DONATE TODAY!

                      Get "The Riding Obsession" sport-touring motorcycling podcast at https://tro.bike/podcast/ or wherever you listen to podcasts!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        What do you guys think about that Honda race oil..HP4 synthetic?? Description says enhanced anti foaming..... Sounds like it may be good enough to me...but im no oil expert either.

                        Last edited by chuck hahn; 04-07-2017, 09:06 PM.
                        MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                        1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                        NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                        I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          That could be nothing more than market wank.
                          Description says enhanced anti foaming.....
                          I'd go with a blended PAO that has a fair amount of ZDDP in it.
                          De-stinking Penelope http://thegsresources.com/_forum/sho...d.php?t=179245

                          http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...35#post1625535

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by chuck hahn View Post
                            What do you guys think about that Honda race oil..HP4 synthetic?? Description says enhanced anti foaming..... Sounds like it may be good enough to me...but im no oil expert either.

                            http://www.motosport.com/product?psr...h0PhoCGnDw_wcB
                            That would probably be a great choice. Although I think any modern synthetic motorcycle oil would have excellent anti-foaming properties. In other words, it's hard to tell whether this one is significantly better than others; they're all pretty good.

                            If you poke around t'intarwebz for "Harley oil foaming" you'll find some good discussions of this problem and what oils people have used to counteract it in their Milwaukee paint shakers.
                            1983 GS850G, Cosmos Blue.
                            2005 KLR685, Aztec Pink - Turd II.3, the ReReReTurdening
                            2015 Yamaha FJ-09, Magma Red Power Corrupts...
                            Eat more venison.

                            Please provide details. The GSR Hive Mind is nearly omniscient, but not yet clairvoyant.

                            Celeriter equita, converteque saepe.

                            SUPPORT THIS SITE! DONATE TODAY!

                            Get "The Riding Obsession" sport-touring motorcycling podcast at https://tro.bike/podcast/ or wherever you listen to podcasts!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by chuck hahn View Post
                              ...but im no oil expert either...
                              None of us here is, and likely no one on any other motorcycle forum is either.

                              Forgive me, but let me vent a little.
                              "What oil should I use?" threads are completely worthless. There is no possible way any of us can know the answer to that sort of question. Think about what it would take to answer it with any sort of scientific certainty. You would need at least a hundred of computer-controlled dynos (with an engine for each), running for thousands of hours, an army of technicians to tear down motors and measure clearances (both before and after) chemical analysis of oil samples...etc.
                              Many, many millions of dollars, and the answers you got still might not be conclusive.

                              Bottom line...the reason that oil threads are a continuing feature of motorcycle forums, always have been and always will is... NOBODY KNOWS!! Which of course leaves the door wide open for conjecture, anecdote, speculation and unfounded opinions. A lot like the Vortex.
                              Last edited by RichDesmond; 04-09-2017, 10:40 AM.
                              '20 Ducati Multistrada 1260S, '93 Ducati 750SS, '01 SV650S, '07 DL650, '01 DR-Z400S, '80 GS1000S, '85 RZ350

                              Comment

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