• Required reading for all forum users!!!

    Welcome!
    Register to access the full functionality of the GSResources forum. Until you register and activate your account you will not have full forum access, nor will you be able to post or reply to messages.

    A note to new registrants...
    All new forum registrations must be activated via email before you have full access to the forum.

    A Special Note about Email accounts!
    DO NOT SIGN UP USING hotmail, outlook, gmx, sbcglobal, att, bellsouth or email.com. They delete our forum signup emails.

    A note to old forum members...
    I receive numerous requests from people who can no longer log in because their accounts were deleted. As mentioned in the forum FAQ, user accounts are deleted if you haven't logged in for the past 6 months. If you can't log in, then create a new forum account. If you don't get an error message, then check your email account for an activation message. If you get a message stating that the email address is already in use, then your account still exists so follow the instructions in the forum FAQ for resetting your password.

    Have you forgotten your password or have a new email address? Then read the forum FAQ for details on how to reset it.

    Any email requests for "can't log in anymore" problems or "lost my password" problems will be deleted. Read the forum FAQ and follow the instructions there - that's what we have one for...

  • Returning Visitors

    If you are a returning visitor who never received your confirmation email, then odds are your email provider is blockinig emails from our server. The only thing that can be done to get around this is you will have to try creating another forum account using an email address from another domain.

    If you are a returning visitor to the forum and can't log in using your old forum name and password but used to be able to then chances are your account is deleted. Purges of the databases are done regularly. You will have to create a new forum account and you should be all set.

GS1150 wheel on GS1000

Adding spacers to each side wouldn't help with any rim offset. I am intrigued now!!

Better get the measuring gear and laser lines I guess!

Josh 83 1100 is 1.85 19". 700/750 is 2.15 from memory.
The 82 Gs850 I have is the widest 19" at 2.15 as far as I know.
 
Last edited:
There is no offset, people just think there is because they can't get bothe the brake rotor and the chain to line up because they're putting the spacers in the wrong places. But please do measure to find out for yourself and let us all know what you find. A metal yard stick or straight edge across the rim and another ruler down to the bearing on each side is all it takes, save your laser batteries for something truly complicated.;)
 
The measurements I took were along those lines.
I compared a GS 1000 S 18*2.15" wheel to a GS 1150 17*3" wheel.
First both wheels have the same bearing to bearing distance: 111 mm
On the 18" wheel the left bearing is countersunk by 10 mm from the wheel outer edge that in turn is 60 mm from the wheel Center Line.
On the 1150 wheel the same dimensions are 12 mm and 66 mm.
This means that by using the same left spacers for both wheels the 1150 wheel will be offset to the right by (66-12)-(60-10)=4 mm
I also measured the 17*3" wheel on my 1100 KAT SD and it comes out at 12 and 62 mm which means that the GS 1000 and GS 1100 have the same offset as (62-12)-(60-10)=0 mm.
I hope everyone is now convinced or did I make a mistake somewhere?
 
Last edited:
I have both a 2.5" 750ES/831100 wheel and the 85 GS1150 wheel not mounted. The 2.5" has a tyre mounted but it needs to come off anyway... The 2.5" was just mounted on the bike & has run over 2k trouble free miles so I know that one fits (and the way it fit was identical to the stock 78 wheel which I now have fitted).

Yes - I have a bunch of wheels :D If I get this to work without spacing out sprockets etc the 83 1100 full set will be up for sale.

I will measure them both up asap.

John, I kind of get what you did but I am a bit lost about why you mention the wheel outer edge. Do you mean the outer edge of the rim or the outer edge of the hub? (where you stick the bearing inside). If the latter then that could be an issue with your measurements as that bit does nothing to locate the wheel on the bike.

Personally I am completely open minded on this, I just want to get it right. I will try to take some pics as I go.

GSExpress - yes I think I'll only need the lasers if I mount it in the swingarm to measure the rim to the swingarm inner - to make sure it's straight :)

I will measure the Avon 130 the same way you did with the blocks above as well as Avon quote it at 140 width which could explain why I only have 10mm there the same as you.

Dan :)
 
Last edited:
is the only difference in the 83750/1100 rim the bearing sizes?
for some reason i thought the rims was a little different.
 
Wheel Centered?

Wheel Centered?

May I say something? Measuring is all fine and such, but bikes are different. There are production tollerances to take into consideration. I would first center the wheel with the cush drive on. Then adjust the caliper bracket so the caliper is centered over the rotor. Make sure there is minimal clearence between all spacers and the swinger so nothing moves when you tighten the axle. Only then, do you see clearence between the chain run, tire and frame. A note: A 150 is much too wide for a 3.00" wheel. Just because it can be wedged on doesn't make it right. Just as a 200 and a 210 can be put on a 6 inch wheel, doesn't mean it should if you want the correct profile and contact patch.
Now, theproper size tires for each width wheel.
120-2.5"
130-3.0"
140-3.5"
150-4.0"
160-4.5"
170-5.0"
180-5.5"
190-6.0"
200-6.5"
210-7.0"
Thanks for listening.
Laters
Greg
 
salty_monk said:
John, I kind of get what you did but I am a bit lost about why you mention the wheel outer edge. Do you mean the outer edge of the rim or the outer edge of the hub? (where you stick the bearing inside). If the latter then that could be an issue with your measurements as that bit does nothing to locate the wheel on the bike.
Dan :)
Click to expand...
Dan,The reason I referred to the outer edge of the hub is that it's a reference point to get to the net offset.
The net offset beeing the distance between the wheel center line and the edge of the bearing.
In other words the net offset for the GS 1000/GS1100 wheels is 50 mm while the net offset for the GS 1150 3" wheel is 54 mm.
The reason Suzuki increased the offset is most probably to make sure there was enough clearance between the tire and the chain.
 
gmansyz said:
Now, theproper size tires for each width wheel.
120-2.5"
130-3.0"
140-3.5"
150-4.0"
160-4.5"
170-5.0"
180-5.5"
190-6.0"
200-6.5"
210-7.0"
Thanks for listening.
Laters
Greg
Click to expand...
I fully agree and that's why I have not used a 150 tire on my 3.5" rim.
 
blowerbike said:
is the only difference in the 83750/1100 rim the bearing sizes?
for some reason i thought the rims was a little different.
Click to expand...

Yes, I just needed to buy a new bearing & spacer set. Other than that they are identical I believe. Fit my 1000 great :)

GMan - I agree with what you're saying but this is from Avons page:

Roadrider AM26 (rear) 150/70-17 (69V) MT4.25 3.50 - 4.50 156 6.1 656 25.8 7.5

States 3.5 - 4.5 rim is acceptable. - I have a 3.5. - I still might go with a 140, I haven't ruled that out as yet... Also still deciding between brands (not fixed to Avon) & whether I want to run 100 or 110 front tyre. I've run both in the past (110 on the 2.15 rim).

http://www.avonmotorcycle.com/

John - I need to think about it more. I think I get what you are saying but I don't believe it works like that as the edge of the hub is irrelevant to where the wheel ends up in the swingarm as it doesn't touch anything.. :)
 
i disagree...
suzuki used a 150/70 on a 3.5" wheel on a 89 750 katana.
i used the same tire(parted out 750 kat) on my 85 1150E.
fit and looked perfect.
 
blowerbike said:
i disagree...
suzuki used a 150/70 on a 3.5" wheel on a 89 750 katana.
i used the same tire(parted out 750 kat) on my 85 1150E.
fit and looked perfect.
Click to expand...

I'll second that disagreement. At least with the Avons I used on mine. A flatter profile tire may not work as well.
 
Okay

Okay

Okay, I am not saying it doesn't work and tires can be made for specific bikes and rims, it is not quite optimum. But, can still work. Now I forgot who had the 3.0" wheel?
Laters
Greg
 
salty_monk said:
John - I need to think about it more. I think I get what you are saying but I don't believe it works like that as the edge of the hub is irrelevant to where the wheel ends up in the swingarm as it doesn't touch anything.. :)
Click to expand...
You are right about that but I only used the edge of the hub as an intermediate measuring point as the bearing is recessed behind this edge.
The net offset I've given is the distance between the two only important parts of the wheel:
1) the center line of the wheel ( the width divided by two)
2) the outer edge of the LH bearing where the spacers come in contact to keep the wheel tight in the swingarm.
By spacers, I mean of course all the spacers including the one in the rear sprocket carrier.
According to my measurements the wheel center line is offset from the point where the wheel bearing touches the first spacer by 50 mm for the GS 1000/1100 and 54 mm for the 1150.
If you use the same LH spacers for both types of wheels... bingo the 1150 wheel will be offset by 4 mm to the right:o
What could be wrong with that logic?
 
And here's why the offset was increased for the GS 1150 over the GS 1000/1100.
There was not enough room to fit a larger tire between the rim and the chain.
The following picture shows the available space left on an 1100 Kat with it's original 2.5" wheel fitted with a 130/90*17" Dunlop GT501 tire.
The chain is a 530 BTW.
57d72c74.jpg
 
Last edited:
And the winner is.... (insert Drum roll here.......)









GS Express! :D

(Although John Kat is sort of right too...) Blower & Cafe - sorry boys... :lol:

I measured both sets of wheels today & then did a drawing of them. I will post a screenshot below (as soon as I get time) but it won't be very clear. It is however very easy to see where the spacers need to go now, the measurements all add up. My measuring was done with a straight edge & a very expensive Mitutoyo vernier caliper so will be pretty accurate.

The spacers need to be:

1. 2.75mm between the bearing & the sprocket drive spacer (Moving the wheel 2.75mm to the right without altering the chainline, this corrects the offset that John Kat was seeing). This is good news for me as it also will give another 2.75mm between the chain & the tyre.

2. 2.25mm spacer on the OUTSIDE of the caliper bracket.

So.. there we have it. I am sure that my measurements are not 100% but they should be good to within 0.25mm for sure.
The 1150 spacer & bearings measure 111mm
The 1000 spacer & bearings measures 116mm

So we have the 5mm difference.

There is one caveat & that is that the brake rotor mounting surface is also 1mm different. In theory to make an exact match we'd need to take 1mm off the inside of the caliper bracket & put a 3.25mm spacer on the OUTSIDE instead of the 2.25. In practice I expect this 1mm difference will not be a big deal as there should be room in the caliper for it to offset by 1mm & still work fine, I guess I'll find that out when I get to that stage. :D

I suspect a 3mm on the sprocket side & a 2mm on the outside of the caliper bracket will work find in practice.... I will find out as I go through the mod & report back.
 
Last edited:
Now I'm really confused:confused:
1) I had believed that with the GS 1000 spacers the 1150 wheel would be offset to the right by 4mm.
According to your measurements you need to add another 2.75 mm spacer to move the wheel FURTHER to the right?
To me this would make the offset even larger at 6.75 mm????
2) I measured again the GS 1000 S wheel ( and a GS 750 wire wheel hub) and for both the spacer and bearing distance is 111 mm against the 116 mm you measured????

To try to clarify, will you please state the offset you measure/compute between the left wheel bearing and the wheel center line for both the 1000 and the 1150 wheels.
 
tell me this...
if you use the 1100 sprocket/cush drive/spacer ect...all the stock parts from the drive side...
then how would your drive line change? it wouldn't.
are you talking about centering the wheel in the arm?
fact is that if all the 1100 parts are used on the drive side then the drive line CAN NOT change.
thats what me and josh did.
we spaced the rotor's caliper hanger to center the rotor.
from the rear of the bike everything looked great.

added.
4 pages for a simple bolt on modification blow's my mind.
 
blowerbike said:
tell me this...
if you use the 1100 sprocket/cush drive/spacer ect...all the stock parts from the drive side...
then how would your drive line change? it wouldn't.
are you talking about centering the wheel in the arm?
fact is that if all the 1100 parts are used on the drive side then the drive line CAN NOT change.
thats what me and josh did.
we spaced the rotor's caliper hanger to center the rotor.
from the rear of the bike everything looked great.

added.
4 pages for a simple bolt on modification blow's my mind.
Click to expand...
Yes, it seems unreal but the fact is that we don't seem to come to the same conclusions...
I agree with you that the drive line is OK if you use all the original 1000/1100 spacers on the drive side.
The problem is not there.
The problem is that the wheel center line is offset differently from the LH bearing.
This means that while the drive line is fine the wheel is not centered...
To get it right, I shortened the LH spacer by 4 mm.
Doing this the drive line is now off by the same 4 mm that I caught by offsetting the front sprocket by the same amount.
I can't explain it in more simple terms...
 
Blower - Doing this your way you would end up with the wheel off centre about 3mm to the left as you sit on the bike :)
I'm sure in most cases that is not an issue or even noticeable by eye or by the rider when riding but I'd like to have it right (plus it buys me more room between the rubber & the chain).

I agree the driveline does not change, that is why the spacer needs to go on the WHEEL SIDE of the sprocket drive spacer (Between the sprocket drive spacer & the wheel bearing).

JohnKat's driveline changed because he messed with the spacer on the OUTSIDE of the sprocket drive.

John - I am measuring that the wheel will be off centre the opposite way to you as it appears you have shifted the wheel left (towards the chain side of the bike) but my measurements & GS Express's comments about shift the wheel to the right towards the brake side of the bike.

Dan :)
 
Last edited:
Can't argue with the facts... :D

I have these fully dimensioned but these views show things best.

This picture show the bearings aligned on the left hand side. (The bearings & spacers have been drawn as one unit for simplicity).

The red is the 750/1100 2.5" wheel. The white is the 1150 3.5" wheel.

You can see at the top of the picture where I have marked the offset of the centre point of each rim & taking a dimension.

10001150Wheelsbearingsaligned.jpg


This image shows what happens when I align the rims so that they are on the same centre.

You can see where the spacer needs to be added, the extra 1mm on the brake surface etc.

Again Red is the 2.5" wheel.

10001150Wheelrimscentred.jpg


This last one should help as well as you can clearly see the hub shape of each wheel. These are not done perfectly (for example I just threw the bearing in there at 30mm dia as I am not manufacturing a wheel & it's not critical for what we need to know) so that's why they will look a little different from an actual suzuki hub/rim.

10001150wheelcomparisonrimscentred.jpg
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
GS1000 "retromod" build questions
2
Replies
22
Views
317
slayer61
slayer61
S
Brakes, front tire, chain
Replies
13
Views
192
Shin-Ken 1074
Shin-Ken 1074
S
Wobble at low speeds
Replies
9
Views
194
first timer
first timer
gtem
Back in the "sort of" GS Suzuki fold: '98 Bandit 1200S
Replies
3
Views
101
gtem
gtem
gs58
Maximum tyre sizes for a spoked wheeled GS1000S
Replies
3
Views
74
gs58
gs58
Back
Top