Real Gasket on GS-ES models, and 1150s etc

[Guest]

Hey guys, I did a search and didnt see anything really covering this in depth. So, I thought maybe we could get some real world results from those who have tried using a RealGasket valve cover gasket in their GS-ES models.

For those who dont know, using a Real Gasket valve cover gasket on the GS 16 valve motors has amounted to a bit of a bugger for some, as these models have the tachometer drive installed IN the valve cover, vs. in the head itself as most of the 8 valve designs do. The Real Gasket is a bit taller than the OE Suzuki valve cover gasket, and this little bit of a difference can cause the worm gears on your exhaust cam that drives the tachometer gear to be misaligned or not mesh as well as it should, resulting in buggered up drives and worm gears.

However, to my knowlege, MOST of the "ES" models (83 550ES/700ES/750ES/1100ES etc) as well as some of the E or standards from 83 on all had ELECTRONIC tachometers. Thus there is no worm gears or tach drive to bugger up.

So, MY question is, before I sink $80ish bucks into a RealGasket valve cover gasket for my 1100ES, have any of you ES or later model E owners tried or currently use a RealGasket valve cover gasket, what are your long term results, picks or pans? The pro here is obviously not having to buy a new valve cover gasket every couple of times into the head, (I generally average about 3 valve clearance checks/adjustments a season, per mileage) but what cons have you found? Sure, its only $80ish bucks, but that could be $80ish bucks spent elsewhere in a refurbish/restore/rebuild for some of us more...."frugal" shall we say? GS lovers...

Frank, if this turns in alot of reports, perhaps it might be worth 'Sticky-ing' this for future members??

Thanks guys! Look forward to your input!

TCK

[madjack57754]

I installed one a few weeks ago on one of the 1100 based race bikes. Seemed to move around more than a stocker. Tried to push out at the front. Loosened the cover back up and re-tightened using fingers to hold it in place. At the time I thought that it was kind of "squishy". No other problems.

[Billy Ricks]

One of the things that bothers me about the is the very low torque they can handle. I guess it's okay if you use Locktite on the bolts.

Hap Call used one years ago and I think he had problems with it.

[rapidray]

I am NOT a fan of ANY gasket that uses that low of a torque spec. ESPECIALLY in an 1100 or 1150 with 750 pump gears & a higher than stock oil pressure. Imagine being on it really good & the gasket pushing out at the front & oiling everything in front of the rear tire!! No thanks, I'll stick to the stock paper gasket on my 1100 valve covers. I've never had one of them leak or push out yet. Even the 1150 & the GSXRs have a groove in the valve cover to retain the rubber gaskets that they use. That alone tells me NOT to use a rubber gasket on something that has no retainer groove! Ray.

[Dogma]

Just thinking through this a bit Ray. In order for a higher pressure oil system to add stress to the cam cover gasket, it seems that the entire valve train area would have to be filled with oil. Otherwise there would just be hydrostatic pressure from pooled oil that may be slightly deeper than usual due to more oil having to flow to the cam chain tunnel.

If a high-pressure failure of the cam cover gasket was possible, it seems to me that a lot of the seeping gaskets we hear so much about would become squirting leaks or blowouts. Now, I obviously haven't been around as long as lots of folks around here. Has anyone ever heard of that happening?

I'm thinking that the rubber gaskets with grooves are more about easier assembly than seal integrity. I haven't seen one. Is the seal captured between parts that make metal-to-metal contact on the exterior like an o-ring groove, or are the parts separated by rubber?

My own experience with the Real Gasket on the 850 is that it is definitely more fussy to install. It's very easy to over torque, and if it's not reasonably well centered on the long spaces between bolts, it tends to squirt out (or in).

[rapidray]

Dogma, an engine with excessive blowby will build pressure in the crankcase & has caused leaks because of that issue. I've seen it even on motors that the gaskets were sealed up good. Ray.

[salty_monk]

I had one on my 801000G. They are "ok" but don't last indefinitely. They are like spaghetti & are relatively hard to position without getting crud on them.

That one on the G leaks now... going with stock next time. Also went with stock on the Skunk.

Dan

[Dogma]

Dogma, an engine with excessive blowby will build pressure in the crankcase & has caused leaks because of that issue. I've seen it even on motors that the gaskets were sealed up good. Ray.

Yeah, I could see that being a problem. I just wouldn't call it a gasket problem, I guess.

[Mysuzyq]

Hey guys, I did a search and didnt see anything really covering this in depth. So, I thought maybe we could get some real world results from those who have tried using a RealGasket valve cover gasket in their GS-ES models.
For those who dont know, using a Real Gasket valve cover gasket on the GS 16 valve motors has amounted to a bit of a bugger for some, as these models have the tachometer drive installed IN the valve cover, vs. in the head itself as most of the 8 valve designs do. The Real Gasket is a bit taller than the OE Suzuki valve cover gasket, and this little bit of a difference can cause the worm gears on your exhaust cam that drives the tachometer gear to be misaligned or not mesh as well as it should, resulting in buggered up drives and worm gears.
However, to my knowlege, MOST of the "ES" models (83 550ES/700ES/750ES/1100ES etc) as well as some of the E or standards from 83 on all had ELECTRONIC tachometers. Thus there is no worm gears or tach drive to bugger up.
So, MY question is, before I sink $80ish bucks into a RealGasket valve cover gasket for my 1100ES, have any of you ES or later model E owners tried or currently use a RealGasket valve cover gasket, what are your long term results, picks or pans? The pro here is obviously not having to buy a new valve cover gasket every couple of times into the head, (I generally average about 3 valve clearance checks/adjustments a season, per mileage) but what cons have you found? Sure, its only $80ish bucks, but that could be $80ish bucks spent elsewhere in a refurbish/restore/rebuild for some of us more...."frugal" shall we say? GS lovers...
Frank, if this turns in alot of reports, perhaps it might be worth 'Sticky-ing' this for future members??
Thanks guys! Look forward to your input!
TCK

I think I gave input without being asked, back in your oil-leak thread.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1183309&postcount=11

I'm using one for a few years now, without issues, but I don't recommend them bec. folks have had different issues with them, and gone back to the stock item....different strokes for different folks, I guess. They have to be installed very carefully, to make sure oil doesn't get on the gasket or the metal faces...if it does, it can slip out of place, esp. if excessive torque is used....you will also need to finger-check the bolts once in a while and snug up any loose ones..... none of these hassles, with using the stock gasket. I don't know if I'll buy another Real one if/when this one is done....but I def. got my $$ worth from it.

I am NOT a fan of ANY gasket that uses that low of a torque spec. ESPECIALLY in an 1100 or 1150 with 750 pump gears & a higher than stock oil pressure. Imagine being on it really good & the gasket pushing out at the front & oiling everything in front of the rear tire!! Ray.

I'm a little surprised to see this post, Ray.... with all due respect, I don't think the valve cover area develops pressure significant enough to blow out gaskets...most leaks here are due to seepage as I understand it, not super-high pressure (which is why we don't see bubbling at leak areas, to help identify their location). I think the path of least resistance would be out the breather, no? Not trying to dis you or anything, just checking to see if my understanding is wrong.

Tony.

[TheCafeKid]

I can't speak about pressure, but I can say that when my valve cover gasket let loose around the cam chain tunnel, I thought I had a much worse issue. It slung oil EVERYWHERE! I at first couldn't tell where it was coming from. It looked like the head at let go or maybe the base. Or the cam chain tensioner. Etc. But it was a simple crack in the valve cover gasket. It's amazing how hard that cam chain slings oil.

[bwringer]

On the 16V engines, the gasket surfaces are very narrow, and RealGaskets will squish out quite easily. I do not recommend them for 16V engines.

On 8V engines, they work great provided you understand exactly how to use the RealGasket. I think something like 99.9% of people overtorque the RealGasket the first time though and then wonder why it leaks and looks funny when they remove it. Tighter is NOT better. And, FWIW, I've never had a valve cover bolt work loose. You do NOT need to mung up the threads with Loctite.

The RealGasket on my GS850 has around 60,000 miles on it with no issues.

One other issue that I will also mention -- don't install new half-moons with a RealGasket. New half-moons sit above the sealing surface a bit, and then normally get squished into place by the higher clamping forces used with a normal gasket. A RealGasket cannot put this kind of force onto a new half-moon, and it will leak at the corners.

If you decide to go with an OEM gasket, get real Suzuki parts. There are people out there on eBay and in certain shops selling crappy, low-quality paper gaskets that don't work -- they're very thin and will fall apart in use, if they ever seal at all. You can re-use an OEM gasket several times, but it will eventually need replacement. So it's a good idea to order two and hang the spare on the wall out of the way.

[Nessism]

OE applications using rubber gaskets capture the gasket with a groove in the cover AND they use special shouldered bolts to control gasket compression.

I used a RG on my 850 and it works fine as long as you are careful to position it and do not over tighten it. It's a bit fiddly and clearly not for everyone, but still a decent product in my opinion.

[Pete Logan]

If it's not out of place in this thread is there any mileage in making a copper gasket, which would seem to combine the long life of a RG with the better clamping of an OEM ?

Just something I've been thinking about with a valve adjustment about due.

Edit: I just looked at the genuine Suzuki gasket I have on the shelf, and it has a raised ridge all the way round, and around the holes, on both sides. Does this fit into a groove or crush flat ?

If it fits into a groove, I guess that would rule out a flat gasket. I haven't had the cover off yet, so haven't seen the surfaces, but I can't see any apparent groove on the Clymer pictures.

[Dogma]

I doubt a cam cover would be strong enough to get a copper gasket to seal. The copper would have to be dead soft to even try it. Now then, a metal gasket with silicone bonded to it would be nice. Much easier to handle. Or maybe a thin coating of silicone. Hmmm...

[salty_monk]

If the real gasket had a metal base in the silicone so it kept it's shape then it would be a much better gasket....

The 83 750ES has a rubber gasket - also "spaghetti" but the valve cover has a special recess to hold it in place so works great.

Dan