Honda/Nissan/(Mitsubishi) merger

[salty_monk]

I had a stick Mazda 3 with the 2.3 Engine in it (the one that shares the bottom end with the Ford Duratec engine). It was a 2008. Good car. In hindsight with what happened right after I got rid of it with Covid maybe I'd have hung onto it a lot longer!
That was a Sedan but the hatch can sometimes be found around here as a stick & is on my list.....

A Ford Focus or Fiesta is also something I'd consider... probably not too much else that would be available.

I have a 2010 Odyssey that is also due an update but its's still going strong and everything works at 170k miles. The worst thing about it is the peeling clearcoat! I follow the maintenance minder but don't rush to change it when it comes around because the oil I put in it is better than what they spec and the maintenance minder is geared for. It usually works out the changes come at about 7k that way. I do change the transmission oil out more often than Honda says & installed a filter into the return line, that's something well recommended for that generation.

We also have a 20 year old Mini Cooper S with a stick in it.... Fun car but not as stone reliable as a Miata!

[Nessism]

I change the engine oil at 5K miles in everything I own, even though Honda recommends 7,500 miles. As for Honda's CVT transmission service, the official recommendation is now 50K miles; an adjustment from the original "lifetime fluid" claim. When Honda first introduced CVTs in Civics around 2011, transmission failures became an issue, largely due to neglected fluid changes.

Over the past 14 years, a general consensus has emerged among Honda owners and techs: changing the CVT fluid every 30K miles leads to better longevity. This recommendation comes from real-world experience rather than Honda’s official guidelines. Those who drive in hot weather or demanding conditions may also benefit from upgrading the transmission cooling system. Dirty fluid and excessive heat are the main contributors to premature wear, though many stock Honda CVTs still reach 150K miles without major issues, even when following the longer factory-recommended intervals.

We’ll find out with my wife’s1.5T CVT Civic; it’s coming up on 30K miles, and I’ll be doing its first CVT fluid change as part of the 30K-mile service. We plan to keep this car for a long time, so we’ll see how these transmissions hold up in the long run.

One of the reasons Honda CVTs tend to hold up well is that Honda manufactures them in-house. In contrast, Nissan relied on Jatco CVTs, which were often paired with engines that were too powerful for their design, leading to frequent failures.

Honda oil change intervals for all their new vehicles is 10k miles. This is based on the maintenance minder. And the maintenance minder will typically throw the code for CVT fluid change at 60k miles.

Regarding "general consensus", there is no such thing when it comes to fluid changes in a vehicle. Come on over to Bob Is The Oil guy and join in. There is a heavy contingent that says to follow the manual, and others that have different thoughts. 5k oil changes and 30k trans fluid changes are typically for people running their vehicles hard. Interestingly, Honda makes no reference to "severe" duty cycle, other than when "driving in the mountains". And I've known several people that have been turned away from early oil changes at Honda dealerships, because the MM code didn't show yet.

I have a 2017 Civic w/CVT and 1.5T engine. Almost all my driving is in the city, and after one year of driving, about 6000 miles, the oil stinks really bad of gasoline. The Honda turbo cars have an earned reputation for diluting their oil with fuel, and although not scientific, my smell test confirms. For that reason, I've decided to move to more frequent oil changes than the MM states. This is my opinion, with some fact, based skew. Nothing wrong with doing more maintenance than scheduled, but again, there is no evidence that it accomplishes anything either.

[Jedz123]

30k CVT fluid changes are like changing your engine oil at 5k miles. About 1/2 the manufacturers scheduled frequency. It won't hurt to change your vehicles fluids more often than recommended, but it's no assurance that the vehicles life will be extended.

Regarding CVTs and durability, with some noteworthy exceptions, such as Nissan and some Subaru's, they have proven to be decently durable. The newer Honda CVT's, as mated to the 1.5T, have a solid reputation. Toyota CVT's are also solid. And to that ends, some Toyota CVT's have a mechanical first gear, to help get the vehicle launched easier. This sounds like a great idea to me. They are too new to have extensive history regarding durability, but my guess, as with most things Toyota, they will prove excellent.

I change the engine oil at 5K miles in everything I own, even though Honda recommends 7,500 miles. As for Honda's CVT transmission service, the official recommendation is now 50K miles; an adjustment from the original "lifetime fluid" claim. When Honda first introduced CVTs in Civics around 2011, transmission failures became an issue, largely due to neglected fluid changes.

Over the past 14 years, a general consensus has emerged among Honda owners and techs: changing the CVT fluid every 30K miles leads to better longevity. This recommendation comes from real-world experience rather than Honda’s official guidelines. Those who drive in hot weather or demanding conditions may also benefit from upgrading the transmission cooling system. Dirty fluid and excessive heat are the main contributors to premature wear, though many stock Honda CVTs still reach 150K miles without major issues, even when following the longer factory-recommended intervals.

We’ll find out with my wife’s1.5T CVT Civic; it’s coming up on 30K miles, and I’ll be doing its first CVT fluid change as part of the 30K-mile service. We plan to keep this car for a long time, so we’ll see how these transmissions hold up in the long run.

One of the reasons Honda CVTs tend to hold up well is that Honda manufactures them in-house. In contrast, Nissan relied on Jatco CVTs, which were often paired with engines that were too powerful for their design, leading to frequent failures.

[rphillips]

Thinking with all the neg. we've seen and heard about CVT's, Mfg. doesn't seem to matter, for the past 20 yrs. It'll be hard for many folks, like me and Jeds, to feel comfortable with a CVT, though they should be some improvement by now. Yes about the mechanical 1st gear, it must be stronger as used to get launched. I'm thinking the mechanical wouldn't be stronger only in 1st, mechanical if they use mechanical all the way up tranny should be stronger all the way up. So can't imagine me wanting a less strong CVT.... Yes, probably strong enough, maybe.

[Nessism]

As for the CVTs, they typically last around 100K–150K miles, sometimes longer if you’re gentle and stick to the recommended 30K transmission fluid swaps. However, they’re essentially designed as throwaway units, and I’m not overly impressed. The driving experience isn’t fun either. If I get another automatic, it’s going to have a traditional geared transmission.

30k CVT fluid changes are like changing your engine oil at 5k miles. About 1/2 the manufacturers scheduled frequency. It won't hurt to change your vehicles fluids more often than recommended, but it's no assurance that the vehicles life will be extended.

Regarding CVTs and durability, with some noteworthy exceptions, such as Nissan and some Subaru's, they have proven to be decently durable. The newer Honda CVT's, as mated to the 1.5T, have a solid reputation. Toyota CVT's are also solid. And to that ends, some Toyota CVT's have a mechanical first gear, to help get the vehicle launched easier. This sounds like a great idea to me. They are too new to have extensive history regarding durability, but my guess, as with most things Toyota, they will prove excellent.

[Nessism]

I have no experience with opening one up to see how it ticks..or tocks.

As I understand the theory, CVTs offer many, possibly very many, possible gear permutations, and that may allow better vehicle performance.

In reality.....whatever the manufacturer sees as best for its bottom line has been the deciding factor for many years.
Front-wheel drive is probably the biggest single example as it was brought in to reduce weights and allow manufacturers to meet CAFE .requirements.but it was sold to the public as a safety measure and then a secondarypsupport of possibly being better in slippery conditions.

Next came the four-wheel drive nonsense about improved safety year round....

One problem with both of those things is that once the vehicle begins to slide/skid they tend to go totally out of control and this is often because drivers seldom...even rarely...actually.know how to correctly deal with a front-wheel skid, whether their vehicle is FWD of 4WD.

The number one real reason for the 4WD push.....it increases profit.

Manufacturers need to make profit in order to stay in business.

FWD is better in the snow and poor traction situations, so they ARE better for safety. They also are more efficient, package better in the car, and I'm sure there are other advantages.

4WD or AWD, which seems even more popular, goes along with the SUV craze. Car sales are way down, because people want the large and tall, rugged looking SUV's. Adding AWD isn't some trick, to increase profit. People vote with their wallet, and AWD is popular because people like the safety it adds in poor weather conditions.

[Jedz123]

I recently picked up a used 2015 Mazda 3 sedan with a 6-speed manual, and I absolutely love it. It was affordable to get into, and on the way home from Burlington last night in 20°F weather with studded snow tires, I averaged 42 MPG. In the summer, I get around 44 MPG. It’s the 2.0 SkyActiv engine, and it drives great.

I would have gone for another Miata (it would have been my third), but with a 3-year-old, I need the back seat; for now. When she’s older, I might swap it out. The Mazda 3 is Japanese-made, handles great, and is an all-around fantastic car to drive. Although I will likely get another 3 but a wagon flavor or a GR corolla.

On the other hand, we got rid of our 2018 Subaru Outback (3.6R H6) after getting a $6K repair quote for a wiring harness replacement due to a minor electrical drain. That, combined with the CVT nearing the end of its lifespan at 75K miles, pushed us toward something else. I asked Subaru for a transmission service and was denied being told it was a "lifetime fluid". Canada does service their CVTs and I tried setting an appointment up over the border. We were lined up and set but I got a call with Subaru canceling my appointment because I had US model and they are not to be serviced, Bananas... So with Subaru officially losing our business we ended up with a 2025 Honda HR-V (K20 with a CVT). It’s solid but uninspiring. The CVT is what it is; functional and cheap but not thrilling. Now that these transmissions have been out for a while, the key to longevity is simple: don’t drive hard, don’t tow, and change the CVT fluid every 30K miles.

My wife’s 2023 Honda Civic EX-L has the 1.5 Turbo with a CVT, and I think that drivetrain is perfect for the Civic. However, Honda was also stuffing that combo into Accords and CR-Vs, which led to issues. CVTs work well in low-torque and low load (light) applications; the 1.5 Turbo and the naturally aspirated 2.0 in my HR-V make most of their power near the 7K RPM redline, so it works when you need to get moving.

The HR-V is a lease, and I’m glad I went that route. Next time, we’ll probably switch to Mazda for our family car; I'm eyeing the new CX-90 base model with the inline-6 turbo and an 8-speed automatic. The Hondas are now built in Mexico (my HR-V included), and there’s a noticeable drop in quality compared to the Japanese-made models. My wife’s Honda is also Mexican-made, and she had a serious steering issue where the steering wheel nearly came off mid drive and the rack was clunking. Meanwhile, my HR-V was missing components in the HVAC system. Honda did fix both issues, but that’s not something I expect when buying a Honda. Just something to be aware of.

As for the CVTs, they typically last around 100K–150K miles, sometimes longer if you’re gentle and stick to the recommended 30K transmission fluid swaps. However, they’re essentially designed as throwaway units, and I’m not overly impressed. The driving experience isn’t fun either. If I get another automatic, it’s going to have a traditional geared transmission.

Just my two cents. Cheers!

[GS1150Pilot]

Perhaps a lightly used Subaru WRX?

[salty_monk]

Miatas are well-built vehicles. As for cost, if you can save a bunch on the purchase, the cost of insurance should be defrayed a bit, eh?

Used 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata Base For Sale $6,988 | Cars.com

Quite true but I need a bit more space for him to Chauffeur me around (won't fit the Mrs in otherwise.... )

[argonsagas]

Look for an older Miata. Hard to beat on all levels.

That is sound advice.

Miatas are like putting money in the bank

They cost little to maintain, are highly dependable and keep a good resale value, seemingly forever.

[GS1150Pilot]

My dad has a 1990 Miata that I’ve tooled around in… they are fun.
I don’t think the insurance would be fun for a brand new driver though??! I haven’t looked into it but I’m assuming/hearing newer and safer is decidedly cheaper these days…

Miatas are well-built vehicles. As for cost, if you can save a bunch on the purchase, the cost of insurance should be defrayed a bit, eh?

Used 1999 Mazda MX-5 Miata Base For Sale $6,988 | Cars.com

[salty_monk]

My dad has a 1990 Miata that I’ve tooled around in… they are fun.
I don’t think the insurance would be fun for a brand new driver though??! I haven’t looked into it but I’m assuming/hearing newer and safer is decidedly cheaper these days…

[GS1150Pilot]

I had a brand new Versa in 2007, it was likely the only manual one in California.
put about 75K miles on it in 2-3 years with zero problems (apart from a rust issue caused by a bad windscreen replacement which Nissan actually ending up paying for).
was a good car all-in.
being from the UK I like a manual, was my main reason for insisting on one, got lucky as I didn’t know anything about the CVT alternative but would have had issues for sure.
I used to say mine was the Nissan test vehicle.. can’t have been too many with more miles on than mine
I’m looking for another stick vehicle now… my boy just turned 15.5.. I want him to learn stick as he will definitely end up driving in Europe at some point and not driving stick over there is a problem!
Hard to find now though!

Look for an older Miata. Hard to beat on all levels.

[Nessism]

I had a brand new Versa in 2007, it was likely the only manual one in California.
put about 75K miles on it in 2-3 years with zero problems (apart from a rust issue caused by a bad windscreen replacement which Nissan actually ending up paying for).
was a good car all-in.
being from the UK I like a manual, was my main reason for insisting on one, got lucky as I didn’t know anything about the CVT alternative but would have had issues for sure.
I used to say mine was the Nissan test vehicle.. can’t have been too many with more miles on than mine
I’m looking for another stick vehicle now… my boy just turned 15.5.. I want him to learn stick as he will definitely end up driving in Europe at some point and not driving stick over there is a problem!
Hard to find now though!

Hey Dan,

Versa is still sold with a stick. It's one of the cheapest vehicles currently being sold. Better jump fast. Versa will be discontinued after 2025 (or so I've read)

[salty_monk]

I had a brand new Versa in 2007, it was likely the only manual one in California.
put about 75K miles on it in 2-3 years with zero problems (apart from a rust issue caused by a bad windscreen replacement which Nissan actually ending up paying for).
was a good car all-in.
being from the UK I like a manual, was my main reason for insisting on one, got lucky as I didn’t know anything about the CVT alternative but would have had issues for sure.
I used to say mine was the Nissan test vehicle.. can’t have been too many with more miles on than mine
I’m looking for another stick vehicle now… my boy just turned 15.5.. I want him to learn stick as he will definitely end up driving in Europe at some point and not driving stick over there is a problem!
Hard to find now though!