Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

GS Charging System Health

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by Suzuki_Don View Post
    Jim I noticed there was no mention of a connection from the R/R to the engine or a connection from the frame to the engine. Are we relying on the engine and frame being in contact with each other through the engine mounts only. If this is the case does any work need to be done on the GS bikes to ensure there is a good contact there. Not necessary in my case as you know, as I have the motor out of the frame and have ensured clean contacts in this area before putting the motor back in.
    On my 1000S there is a large ground cable running from the engine to the battery, grounding though the motor mounts occurs too but it's a redundant path.
    Ed

    To measure is to know.

    Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

    Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

    Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

    KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Nessism View Post
      On my 1000S there is a large ground cable running from the engine to the battery, grounding though the motor mounts occurs too but it's a redundant path.
      Ed, Don,
      Yes there is invariably a current path between the engine and frame due to the engine mounts/bolts. Part of the grounding philosophy is to not rely on those although it does help if any currents that are in the engine cases trying to get back to the R/R(-) do it through the frame.

      Of course any current in the engine cases will have a good opportunity to get to the R/R (-) through a daisy chain from:

      Neg battery cable case bolt=>battery(-)=> R/R(-)

      Interestingly I think the Dyna S uses the engine cases as a ground return for the coils and so that is a major current load that we will never separate from the battery charging return current unless there is a separate ground run from the ignition plate.

      Note, whenever trying to decide how to set up the connections, consider the physical path the current needs to take to get from the R/R (+) out to the respective load and back to the R/R(-). The method I have outlined provides a direct single point connections for all possible current trying to get back to the R/R (-).

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by duaneage View Post
        Ground the RR close to the frame. Ground everything else to the frame. use the frame as a ground.

        Unless your frame is made of plastic or glued together tube use it as the ground reference point, like a billion other vehicles do today.
        Duane,
        Most US car manufacturers left frame ground returns out of their designs over 2 decades ago.

        The point of this thread is to make (as best as practical) the R/R case and it's R/R(-) the single point system ground. The other practical benefit is since all current returns come to this one spot, they are easier to maintain.
        Jim

        Comment


          #19
          thanks pos perfect timing

          Comment


            #20
            by the way electro sports are out of stators at this time and dont exspect any in untill FEB. how ever denniskirk.com has the exact same ones for a couple dollars cheaper

            Comment


              #21
              Charging questions.

              Hello,
              I've been in process of bringing back to life my gs700es that was down for 15years. I've replaced all the std stuff and upgraded to SS brake lines.

              Before the long down time my system blew 2 R/R and when she died 15 years ago I figured it was the R/R again. So I picked up an Electrosport one - now the 3rd to go in. But when fire up time came I found the ignitor had gone out.
              That is now replaced and she is running, but I'm concerned about the charging output of the stator?

              I have tried to follow the stator checks & honestly I get confused.

              So here is my question:
              With the bike started and holding rpms at 5K what voltages should my very simple meter read at the battery?

              I've been told it should be around 14 volts dc - but I'm only reading around 12.4x to 12.5x volts.

              Thanks in advance for any info.

              Jack

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by 007jag View Post
                Hello,


                I've been told it should be around 14 volts dc - but I'm only reading around 12.4x to 12.5x volts.

                Thanks in advance for any info.

                Jack
                See the attached

                Comment


                  #23
                  Pos,

                  Thanks for doing that.

                  Your schematic is a very good reference. Really shows everthing need to undersatand all in one diagram, without getting tangled up in the entire schematic. Maybe show the other ground cable to engine (although you are trying to discuss the charging circuit, a lot of the discussion is about the grounding.)
                  And for a second or two the line in the fuse box up to the aux fuse had me confused where it should cross over the line from the ignition switch. I would suggest that Either put the connection dot everywhere else or make that wire "cross over" with half a circle.

                  You showed pictures of R/R with additional ground wires on the R/R mounting bolt. I will add add a comment that on the Gs (that I am familiar with) that the R/R is mounted on the bottom of the battery box, so not so accessable. On the Gs can (and I have) add the ground wires on the side of the battery box (more acsessable) were the R/R ground (black) wire is landed on the mounting bolt of the starter solenoid. Will allready be a blk/wht ground wire there from the wiring harness.

                  Understanding all this is one thing. Describing it is another. You have done well.


                  <<later note: Pos, I am assuming you made that electrical diagram. But now I see it specifically says "GS1100G", which is not a bike you have. So maybe not.
                  Last edited by Redman; 01-07-2010, 05:48 PM. Reason: add later note.

                  Had 850G for 14 years. Now have GK since 2005.
                  GK at IndyMotoGP Suzuki Display... ... GK on GSResources Page ... ... Euro Trash Ego Machine .. ..3 mo'cykls.... update 2 mocykl


                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Redman View Post
                    Pos,
                    Originally posted by Redman View Post

                    Thanks for doing that.

                    Your schematic is a very good reference. Really shows everthing need to undersatand all in one diagram, without getting tangled up in the entire schematic. Maybe show the other ground cable to engine (although you are trying to discuss the charging circuit, a lot of the discussion is about the grounding.)
                    And for a second or two the line in the fuse box up to the aux fuse had me confused where it should cross over the line from the ignition switch. I would suggest that Either put the connection dot everywhere else or make that wire "cross over" with half a circle.

                    .
                    Red, I will make that schematic more clear. I can add in the battery and starter. The pic is supposed to represent simple current paths for the charging system to motivate R/R connections (e.g. grounding ) and the starter runs off of the battery. Simple enough to add the starter though


                    Originally posted by Redman View Post
                    Pos,
                    Originally posted by Redman View Post

                    You showed pictures of R/R with additional ground wires on the R/R mounting bolt. I will add a comment that on the Gs (that I am familiar with) that the R/R is mounted on the bottom of the battery box, so not so accessable. On the Gs can (and I have) add the ground wires on the side of the battery box (more acsessable) were the R/R ground (black) wire is landed on the mounting bolt of the starter solenoid. Will allready be a blk/wht ground wire there from the wiring harness.

                    .
                    I don’t have a G as you know so, if someone wanted to do an equivalent mount with using the battery box instead of the side plate we could add the picture. I think concept still holds.


                    Originally posted by Redman View Post
                    Pos,
                    Originally posted by Redman View Post

                    Understanding all this is one thing. Describing it is another. You have done well.
                    Thanks I'm trying to keep the description to the simplest form that achieves an level of understanding of the principles. I get several questions so apparently it was not very clear before.

                    Comment


                      #25








                      STEP #1.) GOOD R/R CONNECTIONS On the typical non sense wire R/R there are 5 wires. Make sure these have very good connections to the rest of the system by either:
                      • (1) High quality contacts (like spades with dielectric grease)
                      • (2) Direct physically twist and solder with shrink tubing.
                      I prefer #2 as I seldom have to remove the connections and the solder keeps out corrosion.

                      Just for reference, the 5 wires are:

                      R/R (+) - RED charging system output
                      R/R (-) - Black (typically with a ring lug) Charging system return
                      3 stator wires which are W/G, Y and W/B if OEM or typically all Yellow if say from an aftermarket stator

                      Here is a picture of an 83 GS1100ED with stock harness and an OEM R/R . First thing I did was cut off the burned and melted OEM connectors from the harness. The original ED OEM R/R was fired so it was thrown out. These connect ons avoid the left hand switch and are best.



                      If you have a 6 wire the same applies, you are just going to have to find a low impedance switched power source. You can do a search, but a coil mod relay provides about the best option. Otherwise hook it right to the battery and make sure to not let the GS set for long periods of days

                      The picture note in lower right hand corner it says "4 of 5 wires from the R/R harness R W/R W/B and Y"

                      What makes this a little confusing is the combination of OE/Aftermarket stators/ and R/R's I think I also mis labeled some of the previous wires.

                      See if the attached table helps. Each row is a particular signal ; I tried to color code each one. It represents the stator, R/R and Harness as separate components and how the colors change depending upon OE and aftermarket. Aftermarket is really simple, so after all the color confusion is over you will end up with three free connections and two free wires in the harness.
                      Last edited by posplayr; 06-29-2010, 11:25 AM.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by old school View Post
                        by the way electro sports are out of stators at this time and dont exspect any in untill FEB. how ever denniskirk.com has the exact same ones for a couple dollars cheaper
                        Rewinding a stator is not a very difficult chore. I rewound my daughter"s
                        250 stator last year. Not very time consuming. Just count the turns as you remove the old wire, get new magnet wire of the same gauge and away you go. Being careful not to nick the insulation as you rewind.
                        alex

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I recently noticed a ebay guy in Alabama (?), who rewinds both 12 and 18 pole stators- send yours in and he either sends you an equivalent or rewinds yours. I recall it was about $80.
                          1981 gs650L

                          "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Posting for future referance...

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Wondering if every can read these links? Anybody that can't?



                              Link to Revised PHASE A of Stator Pages:
                              http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3970459/stator-papers-phase-a-pdf-may-13-2012-10-43-am-55k?da=y


                              Link to Revised PHASE B of Stator Pages with discussion of testing methods:
                              http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3977567/dummy-load-scanned-pdf-may-14-2012-8-24-pm-649k?da=y

                              Comment


                                #30
                                They opened as .pdfs fine for me, but I have to save them first.

                                Running a Mac G5 with OS X 10.4.11 at home...
                                '83 GS650G
                                '83 GS550es (didn't like the colours in the 80's, but they've grown on me)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X