Degreeing Camshafts -- Information Required

[blowerbike]

Ummm, I have to chop the ends of my cams off?
I have an 83 GPz 750 (well, it's an 810 now with the Wiseco kit) and I have milled the head, so I have to degree the camshafts. It's an 8 valve shim-under-bucket KZ-based motor, so it should be the same as a GS. The sprockets have been slotted, so it is ready to be degreed. I have a magnetic dial gauge, and a degree wheel. I also have the technical expertise to do the work once everything is in place.
Suzuki_Don, have you done this yet? I am really freaked about having my camshaft ends removed. I'll have to take them to a shop, since I don't own a chop saw nor do I have the intestinal fortitude to watch it being done. I take it the other 3 bearings support the camshaft enough to prevent any flexing. Redline on this engine is 10k and it is a street-legal twistie-capable machine.

LOL!!
you just trim the end of the cam so you have a place for the indicator shaft to reach the bucket/shim.
this can be done in a lather also.
read what trip is saying.
this does not cause any weakness...none.
this is done on the very out most part of the cam before it reaches the cam cap area.
i myself..have a 4" long/small dia. extension for my indicator to reach the hard to get to areas on shim style heads.

[Steve]

Ummm, I have to chop the ends of my cams off? ...

Makes me wonder ... is this done by a machinist or a Rabbi?

.

[koolaid_kid]

kz and gs 2 valves you have to cut the little end off leaving the side of the lobe smooth.
chop right after the #4 lobes int and exh --smooth-- any little puck left will hit your probe.

Have I misread this? I have a camshaft support right after the #4 lobe, making the side of the lobe smooth means that support is gone.

[koolaid_kid]

Makes me wonder ... is this done by a machinist or a Rabbi?

.

IDK, what is the Japanese version of a priest?

[blowerbike]

Have I misread this? I have a camshaft support right after the #4 lobe, making the side of the lobe smooth means that support is gone.

ok i think that i mis-read this also.
trip wants you to clearance the #4 cam lobe to have room to get the indicator shaft to the bucket/shim.

[koolaid_kid]

I just installed one of the cams so I could examine what he is talking about. The only way I could see to be both parallel and perpindicular is for that end of the cam to have vanished. Ouch. I am supposing that the camshaft cap configuration is the same for both engines: I have one on the outside of #1, between #1 & #2, between #2 & #3, and on the outside of #4. If the other caps provide enough support, fine, I don't have a problem (much) if he has done hundreds with success. It just sounds alarming to me.

[spindle]

I'm going to be putting my 8 valve engine back together this weekend and will take some pic's of how I mount my dial indicator. The real trick is that your rod needs to be long enough. I bought a cheap set of replacement rods for my indicator and then supper glued a 1 1/2" brad nail to the smallest diameter one. This lets you position DI up above the cam journals at the same angle as the valve. Like I said I'll post some pics.

[blowerbike]

the material trip says to remove is from the #4 intake and exhaust (lobes).
a little off the side.
nothing off the shaft itself.
i mis-read originally.
(lobe) not (shaft)
so you have room for the indicator shaft(probe) to reach the shim/bucket unobstructed.

[koolaid_kid]

"Cut your cam end off."
The title of trippivot's post.

I've asked his to join in, hopefully he will clarify for me. This is the last hurdle for me to jump in what has been a long, arduous road.

[GregT]

Trippivot is saying cut the surplus shaft off flush with the side of the lobe - either #1 or #4. No problem doing that if your 650 bearing configuration is the same as the 750/1000 eight valve motors.
You say you have a bearing cap on this portion of the cam - I've not been inside a 650, a pic would be useful to confirm the different setup.
It is possible with an extension on the dial gauge to go down beside the lobe onto the side of the bucket without chopping the cam. For your purposes it's not necessary to be absolutely in line with the valve centerline - you're only interested in lobe centers so you only need measure the first .040 or .050in of lift in each direction.
So long as your figures are repeatable and consistent you will be ok.

Greg T

[koolaid_kid]

The GPz750 is actually a KZ750 engine that Kawasaki breathed on; hotter cams, different carbs and exhaust, ignition curve differences, etc. But at its core, it is an 8 valve KZ750. The end of each camshaft has the bearing cap on each end.
I'll have to get an 8-valve GS manual from BassCliff's site and look at the differences, IDK, I've never seen inside one.
Perhaps I am missing the forest b/c all the trees are in the way.

[koolaid_kid]

I just looked at BassCliff's valve adjustment article. They are different. The GS has the end lobes just dangling with a very wide bearing cap between #1 & #2. That is quite different, mine have a cap outside the lobe. Guess I'll keep on looking; they are quite different.
Thanks everyone, my apologies for chasing an invisible goose.

[trippivot]

hi guys yep as crude as it seems I cut the end off the cams after the lobe on the #4 side I have been looking for any pictures I have but it seems as if I have not photoed that detail. your head may be different but the gs 1000 and kz 1000 it is common thing to do.

making these tools and solving problems is not exactly easy

as far as the GPZ I 'd have to re-familiarize my self with it again. I ahve had morew than 1 model of the gpz line 82 R 750 84 uni track sweetie blah blah

I think there is a groove in the gpz 750 KWaK cam for the telescope part of the dial indicator the fit in (by the lobe to reach the bucket)

[koolaid_kid]

Thanks for the response. The KZ750 and GPz750 were the same basic engine thru 85. The 82 GPz was just a dressed up KZ, dual shocks and all. For 83 they got a real sport bike makeover, monoshock, clipons, integrated fairing, etc. I like it a lot better than my 81 KZ, even though they have the same roots. Feels like I am sitting in the bike, rather than on it.
I looked at BassCliff's 850, and the end cam lobes just hang out there, unsupported. And odd design IMHO, but clearly it works. But all my support caps are much narrower than the 850s, so I really want to retain that outer cap.
I'll find a path, I am sure.
Again, thanks for chiming in, I appreciate it.

[Suzuki_Don]

I've not been inside a 650, a pic would be useful to confirm the different setup.
Greg T

Greg the 650 setup for the cams is exactly the same as the other 8V motors. Two cam caps on each cam between #1 and #2 and another between #3 and #4. No cam caps on the ends of the shaft.