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Originally posted by chuck hahn
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Wonder how it would work on carb boots? exacerbating deterioration would be my concern. -
Rubber hardens through oxidation, cross-linking and evaporation.Originally posted by jwhelan65 View Post
Oxidation occurs slowly, as atmospheric oxygen, O2 and ozone, chemically combine with the rubber polymer molecules. O2 works slowly, while ozone works faster. Rubber parts are made with anti-ozonants and anti-oxidants to retard the process. After 30 years, those protective chemicals are mostly gone.
Cross-linking could also be called vulcanization. Rubber is like thick gum before it is vulcanized. (Chewing gum is litteraly rubber.) Vulcanizations stops the rubber molecules from sliding against each other. Think of just cooked spaghetti as rubber before vulcanization. The long strands are only tied at a few places when the rubber item is made. More cross-links can be made after the part is in use. Ozone is a primary culprit.
Evaporation: Most rubber items have some oil in them to keep them soft. Car tires are about 1/3 oil. Volatile components in oil can evaporate. More importantly, oil dissolves in gasoline. Gasoline vapors penetrate the carburetor boot, and can bring oil to the surface, allowing it to rub off or evaporate. The process is slow, but after 30 years, it adds up.
Soaking the parts in oil lets some of the oil be replenished. The trick is using an oil that doesn't do bad things to the rubber. Too much oil, too long, the wrong oil, all would destroy a boot.
It seems that some home experiments have discovered that wintergreen oils does well on GS carb boots. There is really nothing to loose by trying it. The worst that can happen is that buying new boots would be necessary, and the owner would be out a few dollars more.
(I used to work with rubber chemistry.)sigpic[Tom]
“The greatest service this country could render the rest of the world would be to put its own house in order and to make of American civilization an example of decency, humanity, and societal success from which others could derive whatever they might find useful to their own purposes.” George KennanComment
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Cant comment on Glycerines effects or effectiveness Joe..never have used it. Just relaying what a group on the Honda SOHC forums were saying about its use.MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550
NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.
I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.Comment
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I have an old set of airbox boots I decided to soak in marvel mystery oil just to see what happened. The effect, if it even had one was negligable after 24 hours. They've been in there for probably 2 months now, I just picked em up and flexed them a little when I saw this thread. Still pretty darn stiff. I wouldn't count on any drastic changes from it. My $.02 atleast. Sure does smell nice though.Comment
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The kind of oil matters.Originally posted by ezmack View Post
A standard test (one of many) for solvent resistance is to measure a standard rubber item. Then put it in a solvent or oil for a specified number of hours at a specified temperature. Then measure the part again. The increse in size is called "swell." Then let the part sit in air for a specified time to see if it returns to its original size, and remeasure.
A wide variety of oils and solvents are used, depending on service conditions.
Usually, smaller molecules in the oil or solvent swell rubber more. Any type of rubber can be degraded by some solvent. The trick is to find something that swells rubber enough to soften it, without making it degrade prematurely. It seems that someone figured out that wintergreen oil works well for Suzuki GS airbox boots.
I am curious about the way that someone discovered this originally.sigpic[Tom]
“The greatest service this country could render the rest of the world would be to put its own house in order and to make of American civilization an example of decency, humanity, and societal success from which others could derive whatever they might find useful to their own purposes.” George KennanComment
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I've used Rubber Renue from MG Chemicals on Suzuki two-stroke parts with good results. The MSDS lists methyl salicylate, which is wintergreen oil.
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/...er-renue-408a/Comment
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Hmmmmmm........can't seem to find this stuff here
Would really like to give it a try but...............
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Drug store
I got the wintergreen oil at Walgreens. It is a topical solution used to treat joint pain. They didn't stock it, but ordered it for me. Had it the next day.Originally posted by SVSooke View PostHmmmmmm........can't seem to find this stuff hereWould really like to give it a try but...............
1983 GS750ED-Horsetraded for the Ironhead
1981 HD XLH
Drew's 850 L Restoration
Drew's 83 750E ProjectComment
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List of distributors in British Columbia:Originally posted by SVSooke View PostHmmmmmm........can't seem to find this stuff hereWould really like to give it a try but...............
http://www.mgchemicals.com/distributors/canada/bc/Comment
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I was trying to figure out why wintergreen oil was at a electronics placeOriginally posted by jabcb View Post
then looked at your first post in this thread.
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Thanks to jabcb I found the Rubber Renue.Got the last bottle on the shelf at the place in Victoria.Comment
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Healthfood store had it. 6$+ an ounce for the RealThing...
and, apparently BenGay Arthritis Xtra Strength has 30% methyl salicylate if you just want to massage these back to youthful flexibility....it makes sense in a way- "Arthritic" old rubber.Comment
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At less than $10 the Rubber Renue was a bargain thenOriginally posted by Gorminrider View Post
In my internet search I found a cheap source was to that was to be used in veterinary medicine.Used for joints on horses.Didn't peruse that avenue very far as jabcb found me the local source for the Rubber Renue.
Speaking of The Rubber Renue it works great!It actually is a mixture of methyl salicylate and xylene,pretty much the same as was mentioned in that sohc thread linked earlier.PMed jabcb to get some directions on how to use it.He said Not to just soak parts in it but brush it on them put the RR in the bottom of a bucket and put the parts something so they are above the level on the RR then let then "fume" for 24 hours.
My cab dipping set up sounded like the ideal way to do just that.Tried it jabcb way,the boots where a bit better but the 2 I needed to replcae the dead ones off my 85 750 where still to hard.So I tried a 1/2 hour soak followed by more fuming with dunks in the RR along the way.The results are I have 4 nice soft boots to put back on the 750
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Lovin' it! Yes ,the Rubber Renue is a good find -clean+simple.
here's a detail mentioning swelling from another forum I note here...It might be just the hot-water method that incurs swelling...?
"So I learned a few things from the softening process. I found that if you put the old hard boot into a female pipe fitting of the proper size, that the boot will get soft and still retain the original dimension. I had to soak my boots for 60 hours until they got soft,and then I put them in a bath of wintegreen for 8 hours so the wintegreen would go into the rubber as the solvent evaporated.
I was too stupid to realize that if the boot was left free to soften,and it did swell in diameter about a quarter inch oversize. By putting [actually threading] it inside a PVC 1.5" threaded fitting and placing it in 180 degree water for an hour, and then placing it in cold water,it returned to normal size."Comment
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