Alternator Rotor Chip

[cowboyup3371]

Okay, seems I goofed a little. The 14mm bolt I got from the motorcycle shop didn't work in the new rotor (wrong pitch) but is screwing into my old rotor (checked it real quick before leaving to go back into town) so I think I"ll be okay. I'll give it a shot Saturday and see how it works out.

Thank you both very much. Sorry for being such a pain; guess the news this morning really has me rattled.

[cowboyup3371]

Rotor is off, please tell me I'm okay

This is the second time I'm posting this as the damn system screwed up on me the first time.

So after getting home this afternoon, I tried to take the rotor off. It's off now but I think I screwed up so I'm hoping you all can help me out here.

I screwed the 14mm the bike shop gave me and tried using the breaker bar with a socket but the shaft kept turning on me so I had my oldest hold the opposite end while I used a 15mm wrench on the bolt. After about 5 minutes or so of hammering and tightening nothing seemed to be moving so I remembered what you all said and grabbed a small socket to shove down in the hole (the only one that would fit). Finally, after what seemed to be another 10 minutes, the rotor fell off but I found the socket stuck inside the shaft. I got it out and still see threads but I'm not sure if I screwed things up worse for me.

Here are the pictures:

Putting the bolt in place:



It's in and bottomed out



The breaker bar I tried to use before swapping over to my wrench



It's out now but definitely torn up now. I never said I could hammer well. I thought the sprocket was supposed to come off with the rotor but it didn't. It stayed on the shaft but I could pull it off. Course whatever bearings those are inside easily fall out.



Socket is stuck in place. I grabbed an extension and wiggled it back out.



Here are the threads. There are still some in there and I screwed the one bolt back in but I'm hoping I didn't screw it up.



Please please tell me I'm okay? If not, what are my options?

[TheCafeKid]

Good lord man! Yeah the socket needed to be big in diameter to sit on the shoulder of the end of the crank there. It's really hard to see in the pics (I'm not near a computer, using my phone) but if there's some thread left in there you can try coating the stock bolt threads in some valve lapping compound and running the bolt in and out a bunch to clean the threads back up. Or a tap would be better. If that's not gonna work you'll likely have to re-tap the threads in a slightly larger size. That looks like a bit of a mess there brother. Wish I could be there or have been there to help.

[cowboyup3371]

That was the only one that would fit down in there that I had.

THanks.

[TheCafeKid]

Oh and before you go to put it all back together, if you use the lapping compound make SURE you clean ALL of it off very very well. Lapping compound usually contains industrial grade diamond dust (it's like a diamond paste) or something like it that is much harder than steel and if it makes it's way into your motor in any great concentration it will do terrible things.

[cowboyup3371]

So I'm already looking to get this put back on (will clean the threads hopefully tomorrow or Monday) and re-read the service manual. When I finally removed the old rotor, the three round roller bearings and the sleeve in the second picture all fell out before I could see how they were set in there.

In the first picture, it looks like the only way I can get that bearing back in place. Is this correct? (Sorry for the quality of this picture).



According to the picture in the service manual, this "sleeve" looks to fit over the spring that should go in there. Is that right? Is there a specific slot it should fit into? (the old rotor has the spring, the new one does not).



Would it be easier to remove those allen bolts to put everything in place first? Any suggestions as to how to slide the new rotor back on without screwing anything up this time?

EDIT - Update: The service manual only shows the one but after reading my Clymers I see there are three of the springs. I'll be referring to the Clymers to get those back on (I didn't read it before I posted this). Thanks all and sorry for the trouble

[TheCafeKid]

Those are part of your starter sprague clutch. If i understand how these work, Those rollers grip the crank snout when the starter turns the primary gear. As the engine catches and the crank spins faster than the starter, the rollers let go. It's a one way system, as in it won't spin the opposite way. The springs (3 of each of those parts) go in first, then that little cap goes over the spring, and the roller goes in just as you have it. You should be able to get them in there without having to take the clutch off of the rotor if I remember correctly.
If you're missing anything, you prolly want to pull your oil pan and make sure they're not in there. Those clutches, at least on the bigger bikes sometimes fail as the engine will kick back against the starter clutch, and either break the springs and they'll fall out, or sometimes they get blasted through that thin sheet metal cover on the edges. Look close and if the edges are pooched out you might have an issue. Or better still take some nice pics of the assembly if you can, if you're not sure what to look for. Also search "starter clutch" or something here on the board for more info.
While you have it apart, check that the Allen bolts that hold the starter clutch to the rotor are nice and tight. Another problem is that these will sometimes shear.
I've not read about it being a big issue on the smaller displacement bikes, but it never hurts to check.

[Suzuki_Don]

Scott, just as a matter of interest, the official Suzuki tool for this job (removal of rotor) is a slide hammer with a 14mm thread on it to screw into the rotor internal thread and then with the slide hammer action the rotor is hammered off the crank. This way there is no risk of damaging the thread in the end of the crank. I made my own and it worked fine and my rotor had Loctite on the taper as well as the bolt thread. Others will say this puts too much side load on the crank, but Mr Suzuki did not think so.

[tom203]

Scott, just as a matter of interest, the official Suzuki tool for this job (removal of rotor) is a slide hammer with a 14mm thread on it to screw into the rotor internal thread and then with the slide hammer action the rotor is hammered off the crank. This way there is no risk of damaging the thread in the end of the crank. I made my own and it worked fine and my rotor had Loctite on the taper as well as the bolt thread. Others will say this puts too much side load on the crank, but Mr Suzuki did not think so.

Well, maybe Mr. Suzuki wasn't worried about damaging crank bearings, but I sure would be and I'm a hammer mechanic.With a 30 yearold stuckon rotor, those hammer blows could destroy old bearings and leave you with more fun later.

[cowboyup3371]

Scott, just as a matter of interest, the official Suzuki tool for this job (removal of rotor) is a slide hammer with a 14mm thread on it to screw into the rotor internal thread and then with the slide hammer action the rotor is hammered off the crank. This way there is no risk of damaging the thread in the end of the crank. I made my own and it worked fine and my rotor had Loctite on the taper as well as the bolt thread. Others will say this puts too much side load on the crank, but Mr Suzuki did not think so.

You're right Don and there-in lied my problem. Nobody has one as that part is discontinued now (Alpha shows one but I'm being told they didn't). When I asked on here for one (see first few posts) no one had anything to help me so I did the best I could with what I could get.


Thanks Josh for the info. I looked more last night and found all three springs and caps so I'll work on getting those installed into the new rotor today if possible. I'll check the allen bolts like you suggested on the new one as well to ensure they are still tight; I can tell you after trying to get them off the old one, they wouldn't turn for me (using my T-Handle allen wrench).

[mike_of_bbg]

I think in the future when this technique is discussed, I will suggest packing with grease as the #1 option...

hope the crank threads are there enough for you to torque down that bolt. Maybe you can get a slightly longer one if needed?

[TheCafeKid]

You're right Don and there-in lied my problem. Nobody has one as that part is discontinued now (Alpha shows one but I'm being told they didn't). When I asked on here for one (see first few posts) no one had anything to help me so I did the best I could with what I could get.


Thanks Josh for the info. I looked more last night and found all three springs and caps so I'll work on getting those installed into the new rotor today if possible. I'll check the allen bolts like you suggested on the new one as well to ensure they are still tight; I can tell you after trying to get them off the old one, they wouldn't turn for me (using my T-Handle allen wrench).

Well that's a good thing.
I think the other design is a little easier and less possibly disastrous to remove.

[tom203]

I think in the future when this technique is discussed, I will suggest packing with grease as the #1 option...

hope the crank threads are there enough for you to torque down that bolt. Maybe you can get a slightly longer one if needed?

It's often difficult to explain stuff completely without going overboard on details that might be unneccessary to some folks. In retrospect, I probably should have given more explanation on socket use, but since I hadn't actually done a suzuki rotor ( though many gears and pulleys), I figured the details would come from others.

[cowboyup3371]

Thanks all. I picked up a 12mmx1.25 tap to clean up that hole after getting a gauge to verify the bolt's thread pitch. I also picked up a new bolt albeit the same size (I didn't see Mike's post til afterwards) as the old one since it looks like the threads are messed up on a small part of it.

If I return that bolt and get a tad longer (the one I have is 45mm long and Ace has a 50mm), will it hurt anything inside that crank to retap it so I can thread the longer one in?

[Suzuki_Don]

Well, maybe Mr. Suzuki wasn't worried about damaging crank bearings, but I sure would be and I'm a hammer mechanic.With a 30 yearold stuckon rotor, those hammer blows could destroy old bearings and leave you with more fun later.

Glad to be aware that you know more than Mr Suzuki, but either way a hammer is used. Just have a look at the end of the bolt Scott hammered on to get his rotor off. Don't agree with you that the bearings would get damaged. These GS cranks are not known for being fragile. Suzuki mechanics have been using this method of removing rotors for the last 30 years with no apparent issues.

With a slide hammer you are just exerting force directly onto the rotor, whereas with the other method you are in effect hammering direct onto the crank (with small socket inserted). The slide hammer is pulling away from the crank and the other method is hammering directly onto and pushing the crank into the engine. To remove my rotor (and as I said it had been Loctited to the taper) it took only two slides of the hammer, whereas if you look at the end of Scott's tool there were many more impacts than that.