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Thread: Cam Degreeing or not

  1. #1
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    Question Cam Degreeing or not

    How important is it to degree a set of drop in Web Cams in a GS1150 .340 lift or even a set of .348 lift. Would it increase H.P. or just move the power band around..Thanks..I know Web recommends degreeing all there cams.Is it a power thing or a safety measure? Thanks..
    82 gs1100ez 1168 Wiseco,Web .348 Cams,Falicon Sprockets,Star Racing Ported Head,1mm o/s Stainless Valves,APE Springs,Bronze Guides,etc.APE Billet Tensioner,36CV Carbs,Stage 3 Dynojet,Plenum w/K&N filter,Trued,Welded,Balanced,Crank w/Katana rods & Billet left end, FBG backcut trans, VHR HD Clutch basket,APE nut,VHR High volume oil pump gears,1150 Oil cooler,V&H Megaphone header w/Competition baffle,Dyna S,Coils,Wires,etc.Other misc.mods.

  2. #2
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    Default

    You need to degree them timed at the figures they quote for the power characteristics they claim.
    Just bolting them in on stock sprockets may leave them advanced or retarded a degree or so.
    The profile is usually ground pretty close to the stock cam sprocket mount but tooling wear etc can't guarantee that it's spot on so degreeing is the only way to get it correct.
    The LC method is easy and straight forward and worth learning if you want to play with the effect of closing the centers etc without lining somebody else's pocket.
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  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gs11ezrydr View Post
    Is it a power thing or a safety measure? Thanks..
    I'm sure there is some of both in that recommendation.

    First, stock cam timing can be all over the place. There is plenty of tolerance stack up and wear available to significantly alter it from the design numbers. You should realize that the cams turn 1/2 the speed of the crankshaft. Cam timing is measured at the crank, so a 1 degree change at the crank is 0.5 degrees at the cam. That is a very small amount of play but is big enough to noticeably affect how the engine runs.

    Second, it makes no sense to me to spend the money for aftermarket cams and then not bother to degree them. You spent real $$$ to get a high performance part for your bike and now you want to cheap out on the installation and possibly compromise the performance of the expensive part you just bought?

    If you have never degreed cams you will be amazed by how much you can alter the character of the motor with only a small change. IMO, it is absolutely worth the time required to do it.


    Mark
    1982 GS1100E
    1998 ZX-6R
    2005 KTM 450EXC

  4. #4
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    GS11ezrydr, are your Web Cam cams new or used?
    1979 GS850G, currently being rebuilt from the frame up. We shall see how that go's

    "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time" - Leo Tolstoy

    " Be yourself, everyone else is already taken" - Oscar Wilde

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by zed1015 View Post
    The LC method is easy and straight forward and worth learning if you want to play with the effect of closing the centers etc without lining somebody else's pocket.
    Can you expand on what the LC method is? Or, if you have a link you can drop that would be super helpful.
    Last edited by RustyTank; 02-23-2021 at 04:47 PM.
    1979 GS850G, currently being rebuilt from the frame up. We shall see how that go's

    "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time" - Leo Tolstoy

    " Be yourself, everyone else is already taken" - Oscar Wilde

    "Do things for people not because of who they are or what they do in return, but because of who you are" - Harold S. Kushner

  6. #6
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    I think what zed is referring to, is the "lobe center" method whereby you would roll forward until you get .040" of valve lift and note degree wheel. Go at it from the other side until you get .040" valve lift and note degree wheel. Lobe center is the mathematical difference between the two

    ie https://www.cpgnation.com/finding-th...be-centerline/

  7. #7
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    Yes! i was referring to the lobe center method of timing the cams.
    Here's a link to one of many sites that give you the lowdown and much quicker than me typing it all out.
    Web Cam Racing Cams Inc. / Degreeing (webcamshafts.com)
    Despite what the makers say you can use any valve clearance you like ( even negative ) when you do the calcs but be sure to use the same clearance throughout if doing comparisons with duration figures ,the final LC result will be the same.
    Mikuni Viton Choke Plunger Seat Renewal.
    VITON Choke plunger seals .KAWASAKI Z1,Z900,Z650,Z1000,Z1R,SUZUKI GS1000,GSXR,RF | eBay

    Air Corrector Jets for Mikuni VM 24, 26 and 28mm carbs .

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254380193...84.m1555.l2649




  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gs11ezrydr View Post
    How important is it to degree a set of drop in Web Cams? I know Web recommends degreeing all there cams.
    I'll preface my comment with, the more I learn about degreeing cams and how important/helpful it can be, the more I'm inclined to just say yes, degree your cams.

    That said, it may be worth it for you to call Web Cam and ask them directly. I recently purchased a used set of Web Cam brand Street Cams for my bike and wanted to make sure I knew what the manufacturer recommended, so I gave them a call. My cams are considered by Web Cam to be 'Bolt In' cams, which means, from their perspective the cams don't need to be degreed. In other words they can be installed like stock cams and should work just fine. That said, and I'm just repeating myself here, the more I learn about cam degreeing the more I'm thinking it would be a great skill to learn and is clearly the thorough way to install after market cams. Just my two cents.

    Additionally, if your cams are used and you're not entirely sure whether they're in acceptable shape, you can send them to Web Cam and they'll take a look at them for you for the price of shipping. I'd give em a call first. I've found them to be super helpful.
    Last edited by RustyTank; 02-23-2021 at 10:00 PM.
    1979 GS850G, currently being rebuilt from the frame up. We shall see how that go's

    "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time" - Leo Tolstoy

    " Be yourself, everyone else is already taken" - Oscar Wilde

    "Do things for people not because of who they are or what they do in return, but because of who you are" - Harold S. Kushner

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by slayer61 View Post
    I think what zed is referring to, is the "lobe center" method whereby you would roll forward until you get .040" of valve lift and note degree wheel. Go at it from the other side until you get .040" valve lift and note degree wheel. Lobe center is the mathematical difference between the two

    ie https://www.cpgnation.com/finding-th...be-centerline/
    Quote Originally Posted by zed1015 View Post
    Yes! i was referring to the lobe center method of timing the cams.
    Here's a link to one of many sites that give you the lowdown and much quicker than me typing it all out.
    Web Cam Racing Cams Inc. / Degreeing (webcamshafts.com)
    Despite what the makers say you can use any valve clearance you like ( even negative ) when you do the calcs but be sure to use the same clearance throughout if doing comparisons with duration figures ,the final LC result will be the same.
    Thanks guys. This is super helpful info.
    1979 GS850G, currently being rebuilt from the frame up. We shall see how that go's

    "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time" - Leo Tolstoy

    " Be yourself, everyone else is already taken" - Oscar Wilde

    "Do things for people not because of who they are or what they do in return, but because of who you are" - Harold S. Kushner

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    South Central Kentucky
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyTank View Post
    GS11ezrydr, are your Web Cam cams new or used?
    New..never been installed.. And thanks to all for the insight, I have a degree wheel,dial indicator,base and stand,piston stops,etc.I,m satisfied it's worth the time and money..I was just curious about others opinions..And if anyone ever experienced what happened just bolting them to stock sprockets,I'll slot the stockers a little or order a set of aftermarket sprockets...should make tuning a lot easier.. Thanks,
    Last edited by gs11ezrydr; 02-23-2021 at 11:45 PM.
    82 gs1100ez 1168 Wiseco,Web .348 Cams,Falicon Sprockets,Star Racing Ported Head,1mm o/s Stainless Valves,APE Springs,Bronze Guides,etc.APE Billet Tensioner,36CV Carbs,Stage 3 Dynojet,Plenum w/K&N filter,Trued,Welded,Balanced,Crank w/Katana rods & Billet left end, FBG backcut trans, VHR HD Clutch basket,APE nut,VHR High volume oil pump gears,1150 Oil cooler,V&H Megaphone header w/Competition baffle,Dyna S,Coils,Wires,etc.Other misc.mods.

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