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Excellent choice for vintage racing IMO

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    Excellent choice for vintage racing IMO

    Not in my plans this year, but it's fun to analyze potential bikes for vintage racing.
    Reading the AHRMA Hand book, looks like the 1981 GS650E has what it takes to win in Vintage Superbike Middleweight.
    Saw this excellent clean bike on eBay too: 1981 Suzuki GS



    Would have to be prepared similar to this GS750:
    Last edited by Buffalo Bill; 05-19-2019, 10:42 PM.
    "Only fe' collected the old way, has any value." from His Majesty O'Keefe (1954 film)
    1982 GS1100G- road bike, body, seat and suspension modded
    1990 GSX750F-(1127cc '92 GSXR engine) track bike, much re-engineered
    1987 Honda CBR600F Hurricane; hooligan bike, restored

    #2
    Don't know what the AHRMA capacity rules are for that class - but most of the world uses 600cc as the upper limit for middleweight or F2.
    This is based on the period TTF2 capacity rules.

    Friend of mine ran a 650M katana style bike here for several seasons. Pretty stock - std wheels brakes and carbs. I dialled the cams in and set up the stock CV carbs for him. Gave him a lot of fun even though he was against bigger bikes.

    Comment


      #3
      That is a very nice-looking bike.

      I was not aware they were available in silver.

      .
      sigpic
      mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
      hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
      #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
      #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
      Family Portrait
      Siblings and Spouses
      Mom's first ride
      Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
      (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Steve View Post
        That is a very nice-looking bike.

        I was not aware they were available in silver.

        .
        Agree nice machine. What colors were you aware of?
        GS\'s since 1982: 55OMZ, 550ES, 750ET, (2) 1100ET\'s, 1100S, 1150ES. Current ride is an 83 Katana. Wifes bike is an 84 GS 1150ES

        Comment


          #5
          All of the non-L 650s I have seen were either red or black.

          Most of them were Gs, I don't remember any specifics about the Es.

          .
          sigpic
          mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
          hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
          #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
          #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
          Family Portrait
          Siblings and Spouses
          Mom's first ride
          Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
          (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

          Comment


            #6
            Is that Joe Ryan’s old race bike? I’m not sure if he ever got it going quite right... if it is, I’m pretty sure that’s an sv650 front end on it.
            -1980 GS1100 LT
            -1975 Honda cb750K
            -1972 Honda cl175
            - Currently presiding over a 1970 T500

            Comment


              #7
              3 things:

              First, the bike is a lot less important than you think. In club racing, especially vintage, the range in rider speed is vastly greater than the difference in bike potential. If a guy has a GS750, and you beat him on a GS1100, the odds are that you would still beat him on the 650. (and likely, on a 450 as well). Time spent combing the rulebook trying to find the "best" bike for a class is time totally wasted. Go to track, see what guys are running, ask them why and what they would recommend.

              Second, it is much, much, much, much cheaper and easier to buy a bike that already been race prepped, as opposed to starting from scratch.

              Third, if you do start from scratch, please don't cut up a beautiful example of a rare bike. Find a beater and work from that.
              '20 Ducati Multistrada 1260S, '93 Ducati 750SS, '01 SV650S, '07 DL650, '01 DR-Z400S, '80 GS1000S, '85 RZ350

              Comment


                #8
                Or you could run it in a production class... just remove the lights nicely, put them in a box, safety wire it, and strap some numbers on it. You can race in that class until they decide your too fast for it.
                -1980 GS1100 LT
                -1975 Honda cb750K
                -1972 Honda cl175
                - Currently presiding over a 1970 T500

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by RichDesmond View Post
                  3 things:

                  First, the bike is a lot less important than you think. In club racing, especially vintage, the range in rider speed is vastly greater than the difference in bike potential. If a guy has a GS750, and you beat him on a GS1100, the odds are that you would still beat him on the 650. (and likely, on a 450 as well). Time spent combing the rulebook trying to find the "best" bike for a class is time totally wasted. Go to track, see what guys are running, ask them why and what they would recommend.

                  Second, it is much, much, much, much cheaper and easier to buy a bike that already been race prepped, as opposed to starting from scratch.

                  Third, if you do start from scratch, please don't cut up a beautiful example of a rare bike. Find a beater and work from that.
                  Very true. I'll go further and say that if you're serious about Vintage or Post-Classic racing start with a frame and engine.
                  Nearly everything else will be either thrown away or changed.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Some difference of opinion, based on observation

                    Some things I disagree about and this is based on my own racing experiences, observations and interviews:
                    "Find a beater and work from that"
                    That's BS. Walk through the paddock, talk to owners and you'll learn all the 1st rank builders started with the best condition example they could find, and they still look A+ mint.
                    Buy a beater, no way! I tried that. It's probably a jinxed loser with a crash history, bent frame, jinxed engine too.
                    "Time spent combing the rulebook trying to find the "best" bike for a class is time totally wasted."
                    That's BS. Almost always there's a model vehicle that just has an unfair advantage. Been there, done that and felt the sting. Some vehicles are just engineered better, some are junk but they're in the same class.
                    "Finding a bike that's already race prepped."
                    Well that's very true, and maybe someday you'll find just the vehicle you're excited about. Or maybe you're a settler for the homely girl.
                    Again, maybe all your joy comes from engineering a winning vehicle.
                    This is all about finding excitement, getting your ego rocket launched. Not finding a bargain priced appliance.
                    Last edited by Buffalo Bill; 05-21-2019, 07:55 AM.
                    "Only fe' collected the old way, has any value." from His Majesty O'Keefe (1954 film)
                    1982 GS1100G- road bike, body, seat and suspension modded
                    1990 GSX750F-(1127cc '92 GSXR engine) track bike, much re-engineered
                    1987 Honda CBR600F Hurricane; hooligan bike, restored

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Only a fool would cut up a beautiful bike like that 650 to make a race bike. Samples that nice are RARE and should be preserved. Kiwi Canuck restored one like that and it looked beautiful when he was finished. I'd love to have one of those bikes. https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...th-a-Six-Fiddy
                      Ed

                      To measure is to know.

                      Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

                      Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

                      Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

                      KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Nessism View Post
                        Only a fool would cut up a beautiful bike like that 650 to make a race bike. Samples that nice are RARE and should be preserved. Kiwi Canuck restored one like that and it looked beautiful when he was finished. I'd love to have one of those bikes. https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...th-a-Six-Fiddy
                        Ed, you've never prepped and raced any motorized vehicle in your life, am I right?
                        I don't mean hooliganism, I mean on a track as a club member competing race after race for the season.
                        Last edited by Buffalo Bill; 05-21-2019, 07:07 AM.
                        "Only fe' collected the old way, has any value." from His Majesty O'Keefe (1954 film)
                        1982 GS1100G- road bike, body, seat and suspension modded
                        1990 GSX750F-(1127cc '92 GSXR engine) track bike, much re-engineered
                        1987 Honda CBR600F Hurricane; hooligan bike, restored

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I've built dozens of race bikes, both for myself and for others, and I'll stand by what I said.

                          One clarification. When I said "buy a beater", I was referring to a street bike as a starting point. Any street-to-track project I've done starts with taking the bike down to the frame, and I'm going to do that regardless of condition. The money saved on the original purchase buys a lot of race parts.
                          Of course, there's a limit to it, I don't buy total junk. The ideal is a low-mileage bike that's been low-sided.

                          Race bikes are a different story. There, buy a nice one that has the right parts on it and is properly sorted. Usually a lot cheaper than building yourself, and if your primary purpose is to race, rather than build, than that's the way to go.

                          Also a caveat on the "bike doesn't matter". That's less true in the slower classes. A guy on a 40hp bike might be able to use the extra power of a 50hp one. Once you get to 70-75hp, that largely stops, and most guys are just going to lap as fast as they are going to lap, regardless of bike. More power makes the bike harder to manage, offsetting the gains on the straight.
                          '20 Ducati Multistrada 1260S, '93 Ducati 750SS, '01 SV650S, '07 DL650, '01 DR-Z400S, '80 GS1000S, '85 RZ350

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Rich I'll agree with your clarification. If there is a decent bike with superficial damage and lower price, that makes sense.
                            A tweaked frame or shock damaged engine, walk away.
                            The adjective "beater" means junk to to me.
                            "Only fe' collected the old way, has any value." from His Majesty O'Keefe (1954 film)
                            1982 GS1100G- road bike, body, seat and suspension modded
                            1990 GSX750F-(1127cc '92 GSXR engine) track bike, much re-engineered
                            1987 Honda CBR600F Hurricane; hooligan bike, restored

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Buffalo Bill View Post
                              Ed, you've never prepped and raced any motorized vehicle in your life, am I right?
                              I don't mean hooliganism, I mean on a track as a club member competing race after race for the season.
                              Correct. This has nothing to do with my comment though. I've know a number of guys that have raced and I helped them out from time to time wrenching (often after a crash). Race bikes lead a difficult life and taking a creampuff stock vintage bike and beating it to death on the track would be a damn shame in my view.
                              Ed

                              To measure is to know.

                              Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

                              Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

                              Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

                              KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

                              Comment

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