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    16valve adjusters coming loose

    Hi, i know the adjustment interval for the adjusters vs shim is like 4k miles vs 8k miles, but mine aren't staying put.
    i've got a GS1100E that i ride a lot, and have used for 4-5 track days this summer. i rebuilt the top end in April, and have done 3 valve adjustments so far, due to loose tappets making noise. Most recently, about a week and a half ago i opened the engine and found #1 and #4 cylinder exhaust valves a bit loose (.05" instead of .04"), but i could hear the tapping so i wanted to get things right. Adjusted/checked all the valves twice, rotating the engine between checks. the tapping was gone when i started the engine and was fine while riding around the city and such.

    took a trip last weekend (~500miles round trip) and then brought the bike to the track on Monday. it's tapping again.

    I know i got all my locknuts tight, though I didnt put a torque wrench on them. by the feel of my hand on the wrench, i'd say they were between 10-20ftlbs tight.

    seems wrong for the tappets to loose themselves after less than 1000 miles.
    any insights, recommendations or techniques to help keep them in spec any longer?
    or just SHUT UP AND RIDE.
    1/2 of me says "if you can hear it tapping, it's not correct... fix it"
    the other 1/2 says "everyone is always saying that these are 'bulletproof' motors... wait til 4000 to do the adjustment"

    C
    81 gs1100E
    81 gs550
    74 xlch 1000 custom
    03 ktm 525 exc supermoto
    76 honda cj360
    72 honda cl350
    2 green parrots

    #2
    well you DO NOT WANT THOSE NUTS TO COME LOOSE, FOR SURE. that being said, a certain amount of tappity tap is, as far as i can tell after 15 years or so of gs ownership, fairly normal.... Furthermore, a little loose on the valves is better than too tight (talking valve clearance here, not adjuster tightness....) as they wear tighter. Me, if I was worried the adjuster nuts were coming loose, I'd check them. Cover gasket "might" be reusable after the short interval, even if you need a new one, its like, 20 bucks or so for oem (I always have an extra on hand just in case)..... as a side note, if you have 2 feeler gauges it makes it easier to get the 2 adjusters per valve even, and even is good.....
    1983 GS 1100 ESD

    Comment


      #3
      though I didnt put a torque wrench on them. by the feel of my hand on the wrench, i'd say they were between 10-20ftlbs tight
      I hate to be the nanny-guy but really, a small torque wrench in Inch/lbs is something to you need. It needn't be the most expensive. If a nut and adjuster come loose, it will do serious damage. You may have already damaged the threads in the tappets ...loctite at the least.
      Last edited by Gorminrider; 09-12-2019, 12:00 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Assuming that your clearance checking is correct, is there any chance that the cam or followers are dying?
        A friend had an extremely abused 1100e that the cam started going round on.
        sigpic
        When consulting the magic 8 ball for advice, one must first ask it "will your answers be accurate?"

        Glen
        -85 1150 es - Plus size supermodel.
        -Rusty old scooter.
        Other things I like to photograph.....instagram.com/gs_junkie
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        Comment


          #5
          If the adjuster nuts are still tight, what you're describing isn't the adjusters coming loose - it's the clearances growing.
          Next time you pull the cam cover, take out a follower pivot shaft - the followers will stay in place if you're careful.
          You can then lift each follower out and have a look at the rubbing surface. Flats are a giveaway that it's gone through the hardening.

          Megacycle and other cam companies offer a refacing service for the followers. Usually the cams aren't too badly worn.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by dorkburger View Post
            Assuming that your clearance checking is correct, is there any chance that the cam or followers are dying?
            A friend had an extremely abused 1100e that the cam started going round on.
            Usually the followers get a lateral groove in them, especially if the valves have gone tight at some time. If this goes down through the hardening the dominoes start to fall and things wear loose. I've seen some seriously cratered rockers and 'low lift' cams, still running.
            '82 GS450T

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by CincinnatiKid View Post
              ... i opened the engine and found #1 and #4 cylinder exhaust valves a bit loose (.05" instead of .04"),
              I am going to be the one to ask you whether you are mis-adjusting your valves or are simply mis-typing on the keyboard?

              The stock clearance is 0.08-0.13mm, which is 0.003-0.005".

              Did you note the extra zero?

              If you really do have your clearance set to 0.04", of course it's going to be noisy.

              .
              sigpic
              mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
              hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
              #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
              #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
              Family Portrait
              Siblings and Spouses
              Mom's first ride
              Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
              (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

              Comment


                #8
                hi thanks for the replies. yes it was a keyboard typo steve. .004" was what i adjusted to.
                i have recently been back into the engine, and none of the adjusters were loose. my torquing of locknuts was/is fine. not entertaining the idea of putting locktite on my valve adjusters!

                here's the update... bike is parked in the garage until i can get this sorted.

                i kept riding the bike around town and to work. tapping was still there, but not getting any worse.
                earlier this month, i had a job about 50mi from the house, and took the GS there and back on the interstate. when i got back to Chicago on the way home, getting off the interstate I heard that the tapping was markedly louder. Definitely coming from cylinder 1 side, almost sure it's exhaust valve side, just by ear. Instead of going home, i went to the shop and dropped the bike off so I could come back the next afternoon and check the valves on a stone cold engine.

                almost all the valves were right in spec. one of the cyl 1 exhaust valves was actually tight. nothing was radically out. I reset them all, checked twice. buttoned the valve cover up, re-used the OEM gasket for the 3rd time, and began the 4 mile ride back to the house. The heightened tapping sound was still there. I got the bike home to my garage, sat and thought for a second, and checked the oil. it was low. there's been a small leak from the front center of the engine between cyl 2/3 exhaust manifold, but manageable, i've kept an eye on it. the bike needed about a quart of oil or so. I top it off. that night getting ready to go to work, I pull the bike out and start it, walk it out of the garage and see its leaking oil badly. bad news. Bike is parked now.
                81 gs1100E
                81 gs550
                74 xlch 1000 custom
                03 ktm 525 exc supermoto
                76 honda cj360
                72 honda cl350
                2 green parrots

                Comment


                  #9
                  The next day I go to investigate and see the oil is coming from the filter cover. I took the pipes off, clean the hell out of the front of the engine w brake cleaner etc etc and then splash some baby powder on the engine to find where its leaking. i find it's from the filter cover (compromised o-ring? why would that just go bad all the sudden?). I also find that the upper oil leak is coming from one of the 2 center front head nuts that has the o-ring seal.

                  I have ordered a new filter with an o-ring, as well as a new head gasket. I plan to line the inside of the filter cover o-ring channel with a modest amount of RTV to make sure it seals properly the next time.

                  The clymer manual says you can remove the head with the engine in the frame. I believe this to be true unless someone says otherwise. I'm going to take the head off and inspect the cylinder 1 exhaust valves, among the others. At this point, I'm not sure what the tapping could be, but the tempo and location of the noise certainly makes me think it's a part of the valve train. Perhaps the lack of oil on the highway riding caused the cylinder 1 exhaust valves to overheat. maybe warping them? I hope not. I am grateful for the other posters here who brought up the camshaft and follower as another potential point of failure. I'll inspect there as well.

                  Also while the head is off, I can inspect/clean/help to reseal the head nut.

                  As I type this, I realize that I ought to do a compression test before tearing into the head. so that's step one.
                  81 gs1100E
                  81 gs550
                  74 xlch 1000 custom
                  03 ktm 525 exc supermoto
                  76 honda cj360
                  72 honda cl350
                  2 green parrots

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Another clue of hot-running cylinder 1 would be the inside of the headers.

                    Cylinders 2 and 3 had more of a darker soot, while cylinders 1 and 4 had a lighter grey soot to them. seems relevant. running leaner = more heat.

                    I have k&n pods with a stage 3 dynojet kit installed. perhaps I ought to raise the needle on cylinders 1 and 4.
                    81 gs1100E
                    81 gs550
                    74 xlch 1000 custom
                    03 ktm 525 exc supermoto
                    76 honda cj360
                    72 honda cl350
                    2 green parrots

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Don't put RTV on the filter O ring. A couple of dabs of grease to hold it in place while the cover goes on is all that's needed.

                      If you have the valve cover off, check that the springs locating the cam followers are all intact.
                      The O ring on that head bolt can be changed in isolation - without removing the head.

                      A rare event I have struck a couple of times is a loose valve seat in the head. One symptom was a rattle when hot.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        re: the clattering, make sure the exhaust bolts are tight with new gaskets. I occasionally have one come loose (studs with nuts instead of the bolts) and when it's a bit loose, the noise can be....disconcerting. Just make sure you check all the simple stuff before you go pulling the head. Though, to be fair, at this age a lot of these bikes seem to be developing leaky valve stem seals, and are due for a top-end refresh anyway, so..... And yes, head can come off in-frame.
                        1983 GS 1100 ESD

                        Comment


                          #13
                          One other note: When you pull the head, also plan on pulling the cylinders to replace the base gasket.

                          No matter how careful you might be, when you pull the head, you WILL disturb the base gasket. Replace it. Use OEM gaskets.

                          .
                          sigpic
                          mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                          hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                          #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                          #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                          Family Portrait
                          Siblings and Spouses
                          Mom's first ride
                          Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                          (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            +1 (many times) for the leaky exhaust sounding like worrisome mechanical mayhem about to ensue.
                            First time I heard it I was sure I'd ran a little end.
                            ---- Dave
                            79 GS850N - Might be a trike soon.
                            80 GS850T Single HIF38 S.U. SH775, Tow bar, Pantera II. Gnarly workhorse & daily driver.
                            79 XS650SE - Pragmatic Ratter - goes better than a manky old twin should.
                            92 XJ900F - Fairly Stock, for now.

                            Only a dog knows why a motorcyclist sticks his head out of a car window

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by GregT View Post
                              Don't put RTV on the filter O ring. A couple of dabs of grease to hold it in place while the cover goes on is all that's needed.

                              If you have the valve cover off, check that the springs locating the cam followers are all intact.
                              The O ring on that head bolt can be changed in isolation - without removing the head.

                              A rare event I have struck a couple of times is a loose valve seat in the head. One symptom was a rattle when hot.
                              The cover leaking out of nowhere had me second guessing the o-ring seal, and I figured a very modest bead of RTV, cured for an hour or so before an o-ring is installed, will help give me some assurance. I love RTV when used sparingly and judiciously.

                              I have replaced the o-rings on those head bolts already once, greased and reinstalled (one at a time), and still have sealing issues. Tempted to reinstall with the tiniest bit of...... Hi temp RTV just damn tired of having a *@%^$*@%^$*@%^$*@%^$ty looking front of my engine.

                              My exhaust has flanges that bolt onto the head, and the headers slip onto those and are secured with hook springs. I’ll check my bolts holding the flanges. Those were installed in like June with new gaskets and anti-seize.
                              81 gs1100E
                              81 gs550
                              74 xlch 1000 custom
                              03 ktm 525 exc supermoto
                              76 honda cj360
                              72 honda cl350
                              2 green parrots

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