Cmon man!...474 lbs 110hp but dosn't run 10s?????????????????????????????

[mharrington]

The Z900 honors the original while offering more power and better drivability/handling than the original. (Im NOT saying new is better than old!) In contrast the new Honda makes less power, weighs the same if not more than the original while offering a little better handling and braking. Though a great looking Bike its not for me. I will admit being that the Honda is new and not 40 years old is an improvement in reliability- parts availability etc. Related thinking- the Mustang and Camaro and Vette didnt have mass appeal to older muscle car guys until they began to outrun the big dogs from the muscle car era. In the 1980s Camaros made 108hp mustangs did better but if a muscle car guy purchased one it was followed with go fast mods to make it faster. (Buick GNX and Grand National were bad ass but many would not leave the Mopar and Ford camp and cross into the GM camp to own one)But then in the 90s the power and performance really picked up on those V8 cars and made them tempting to even the hemi and LS-6 guys. On Moparts.com many member have sold off the their old loves and bought a modern Challenger- many have Hellcats BUT... They admit their advanced age and worsening back issues has taken the fun from wrenching on old cars.

I posted the same thing on the KZ owners page on Face Book. Some members immediately turned my post into "Whats better old vs new?" and thats not the point of discussion. I admit it would be nice having a bike where new accessories are readily available. I made the backrest from my XS1100 work on my GS. I affixed it to the GS rear rack with 2 piece collars. Used plastic strips to not damage the powder coat on the rack. Back in July I did the starter relay mod. What a difference getting a full 12v to the coils makes. Anyways Im speaking all over the place. In Jan 2018 I sat on a Z900RS at Babbitts in Muskegon MI. I ALMOST spoke to a salesman but my financial senses prevailed.

[Jedz123]

I was on the fence when it came down to my Bonneville T120 or a Z900RS. The throttle by wire, ABS, Traction control, heated grips and cruise control did me in and bought the Bonneville which I ABSOLUTELY LOVE. It has all the modern creature comforts but it LOOKS LIKE A MOTORCYCLE! Love it!



My FZ1 will leave it in the far dust but the T120 has personality allot like my old GS750 did, Grubmbly, torquey and uniquely loud (that's because I have a custom exhuast on the Triumph). The Z900 I rode is very plain jaine I-4 Japanese motorcycle, which is great and I love! But I prefer to have the FZ1 for it's just faster, quicker and more comfortable (plus way cheaper). I only have room for one modern classic in the heard.

[Redman]

Mike,

I dont have anything to add to the gearhead talk here.

But did want to say "good to see you posting". Havent heard much from you lately.
And I can tell you that I havent been going to Holland as much as I used to back when.... ah, what is that called.... when go someplace and do stuff for someone else 5 or 6 days a week..... ah, whats that called... oh, yah,... a job..... havent been going to Holland as much since I dont have a job there anymore.

[Griffin]

As for the posts about 1/4 mile times from the bike mags "back in the day", there are all kinds of misconceptions about how they were conducted and who did them on this thread, which I will address later when I have more time.

Ok, here's the deal on testing of bikes "back in the day" by the motorcycle magazines, and their published ETs, which everyone back then would argue over and brag about (as if they had achieved these times themselves on their own bikes).


During the classic UJM era (1976-1984), there were four major motorcycle magazines that did performance testing and ride reviews of new bikes, and each magazine had its own tester in the early/mid eighties for 1/4 mile testing. They are listed below:

Cycle Mark Homchik
Cycle World John Ulrich
Motorcyclist Jeff Karr
Cycle Guide Charles Everitt

All these magazines were HQ'ed in the LA/Orange County area, so the writers and editors all knew each other and there was a lot of friendly rivalry between them. All of these 1/4 mile testers were professional road racers, not drag racers, but they knew how to launch and ride these bikes quite proficiently.

The first bike to break into the 10 second bracket when tested by one of the four "regular" 1/4 mile testers was the 1983 GS1100ES, ridden by John Ulrich for the September 1983 edition of Cycle World. He ran multiple runs, and his quickest was 10.99 seconds. This was not the first time a bike in the magazines was listed in the 10s, however.

For the first few months of 1983, Mark Homchik of Cycle was not able to ride, due to a broken wrist suffered in a road racing accident. Cycle enlisted Jay Gleason to do their 1/4 mile testing while Homchik was on the mend.

The April 1983 edition of Cycle featured an article comparing the CB1100F, GPZ1100, and GS1100ES. Gleason rode two of them into the 10s. Times were as follows:

CB1100F: 11.03 sec
GPZ1100: 10.80 sec
GS1100ES: 10.88 sec

Gleason thought the 1100F could break into the 10s, but it had a grabby clutch that got worse as testing continued, and it was fried by the final run.

Here are the Dyno tests for each bike:





See how flat the torque curve for the GS1100ES is compared to the other two? That is why it was easier for the non-Gleason riders to get the best 1/4 mile ETs with it. It was also the King of Roll On Acceleration, running away from the other two when cruising along in top gear and whacking open the throttle.


Gleason also did the 1/4 mile testing for Cycle Guide's August '83 "World's Fastest Motorcycle" shootout (Charles Everitt did the top speed testing on the salt flats). The GPZ1100, GS1100ES, GS1100S Katana, GPZ750 Turbo, and V65 Magna were used for this article (Honda would not supply a CB1100F for testing, even though Cycle Guide asked them to). All of them ran in the 10s except the V65, because it would wheelie too much for maximum launch speed. The GPZs tied for top speed, and the GPZ750 Turbo won the 1/4 mile competition.

All of the testing Gleason did for Cycle and Cycle Guide was on regular production units supplied to the magazines by the manufacturers, except the GPZ750 Turbo, which was a pre-production unit. I doubt if the manufacturers knew Gleason was going to test them, because he had never done so for the magazines before.

The infamous 10.47 time featured in the ad for the GS1150ES was run by Jeff Karr of Motorcyclist, not Jay Gleason. Karr was pictured in his beautiful black two piece leathers in the ad, lighting up the rear tire on a GS1150ES. However, it was run with a California-only model, designated a 1983 GS1150ES (brought into the state before January '84 to beat new California emission requirements). Only a few dozen of these bikes existed, and they were technically pre-production units. The regular 1984 GS1150ES models everyone else got weren't quite as well tuned as the California '83s, and didn't test as well for the other magazines, although all of them broke into the 10s easily.

The 1984 Cycle Guide fastest shootout had a split decision: The GS1150ES for the 1/4 mile, and the FJ1100 for top speed.

[Rob S.]

I love this stuff. (More please).

(Also loved to see that the '83 11E made only 90 hp on the Dyno. Makes me feel better about my '82's 99.3 when 108 was claimed for that year.)

[Buffalo Bill]

Very good post Brett!
Looks like the GPz was the highest tuned bike of the group, maxed out. The Honda and Suzuki both had higher performance potential.
It's their higher torque at lower RPM that indicates potential.

What do 1/4 mile figures matter?
Nothing for interstate highway cruisers.
They're a excellent indication of engine potential for track racers.
Chassis handling is another topic.

[storm 64]

Very interesting Brett, thanks for posting. �� All I know is; Add a slick, wheelie bar and air shifter to the 82 1100e and you'd run 10.20's 126mph in the quarter mile all day long! Well, with a welded/balanced crankshaft and HD clutch hub, undercut transmission. I had to modify the carboratotors, one and four would dry up. I drilled a 3/16 hole and a 1/8" pipe tap on the outside of 1-4 carboratotors and brought the fuel in that way. Thinking about it now, I just needed to put a "T" between 1-2 3-4... hey, I was just a kid! Haha ��

[wymple]

At my skill level, my old 82 1100EZ ran pretty much dead even with my buddy's GPZ1100. After proper jetting according to V&H along with their 4-1 pipe, I walked him consistently. We had another kid with a tuned XS1100 that almost matched me. None of these bikes came factory at max potential.

[Griffin]

I love this stuff. (More please).

(Also loved to see that the '83 11E made only 90 hp on the Dyno. Makes me feel better about my '82's 99.3 when 108 was claimed for that year.)

Here are Cycle's dyno charts for all four years' GS1100E models:


Interesting to see how they tweaked the engine over the years. The '81 model shows a significant jump in HP from 6,500rpm to redline over the '80 model. The performance for the '81 and '82 models are statistically identical. The '83 model has lower peak HP than the '82, but considerably higher midrange HP and a much flatter torque curve in the low and midrange rpms. That made the '83 feel from the "seat of the pants" like the most powerful engine of the bunch, when used in real world situations. Bear in mind, this engine with stock sprockets is only spinning at about 3,800 rpm at 60 mph.

As Norm stated, it was relatively easy to get over 120 HP out of these engines. They weren't designed for it, however, so structural changes had to be made as well to handle the extra HP.

[mharrington]

Redman- Hello! I Congrats on retirement! Sounds like your enjoying it. Ive been plagued with spinal injuries and surgeries. Discs bulge without warning and surgury ensues. S o my last 3 summer riding seasons have been cut short. Awesome your doing well.

Jedz- that Triumph is a beautiful bike. Really strikes that 60s British look. I admit the torque and sound of a parallel twin is very fun. I had a restored semi street tracker XS650 and it was very enjoyable for enjoyable country cruising. And- as I have mentioned the Triumphs do a fantastic job of making the engine the visual centerpiece.

Griffin you potsed a fantastic write up. That is what I was looking for! I learned alot from this. I have saved your post and printed to paper. These things need to be known. I read the 3 way shootout of the 1100s and the GS had usable linear torque where the others had Power coming on much later RPM engines.


My 80 XS650 I fixed up.

[Griffin]

Redman- Hello! I Congrats on retirement! Sounds like your enjoying it. Ive been plagued with spinal injuries and surgeries. Discs bulge without warning and surgury ensues. S o my last 3 summer riding seasons have been cut short. Awesome your doing well.

Jedz- that Triumph is a beautiful bike. Really strikes that 60s British look. I admit the torque and sound of a parallel twin is very fun. I had a restored semi street tracker XS650 and it was very enjoyable for enjoyable country cruising. And- as I have mentioned the Triumphs do a fantastic job of making the engine the visual centerpiece.

Griffin you potsed a fantastic write up. That is what I was looking for! I learned alot from this. I have saved your post and printed to paper. These things need to be known. I read the 3 way shootout of the 1100s and the GS had usable linear torque where the others had Power coming on much later RPM engines.


My 80 XS650 I fixed up.

We posted new posts at the same time. See the post I just did right before yours, comparing all four years' GS1100E models.

Funny how almost 40 years later, the magazines' 1/4 mile testing is still starting arguments.

[rphillips]

Very interesting, back in the day I was riding an "80" 1100E, & the fastest stock bike around my area. Every yr. my buddy & I would study the dealer shop manuals, to find the new tweaking the factory had done to the big 16V GS engines. There were very few changes, that we could find, thru these 4 yrs. The opening on the air box changed most every year, Cams, cam timing, valves, valve seats, jets, all were the same, till mid "82", when they changed the ex. cam profile slightly & beefed up the end of the crankshaft. There were 2 "82" GS1000SZ Katana's sold in my area, we quickly found they both were about the same in the 1/4 mi. as most 1100's. We started trying to figure how this was happening & discovered the valve seats on the Katans's were cut on a different angle than the 1100's valve seats, & the Katana air box had a little rubber boot (snorkle) installed, Oh yeah, I think the "82" Katana was the first that came with a foam pre filter (or sock) over the main air filter. Were there other changes I've forgot or never knew about for the big 16V engines? Also wondering about those HP & torque charts, slightly different cam timing settings, a degree or two, from the factory could account for the slight HP & torque readings on the chart, even if the actual specs hadn't been changed.

[mharrington]

We posted new posts at the same time. See the post I just did right before yours, comparing all four years' GS1100E models.

Funny how almost 40 years later, the magazines' 1/4 mile testing is still starting arguments.

Very interesting dyno graphs. I gotta believe the Japanese designers had a ball designing these inline 4 big displacement bikes. The bikes designed for use in Japan were not big powerful musclebikes- and giving the designers and engineers permission to go wild for the American market had to be awesome.

[Jedz123]

Damn good readings guys.

Norm awesome idea to keep the fuel flowing to all the bowls... I read that and laughed. Awesome idea.

[kingofvenus]

Back in '92 i had a '83 cb1100f that was a wreck turned into a small slick wheelie bar bike. v/h sidewinder, cams and 29 smoothbores. Ran best of 10.19 a bunch of times. Currently my son has a '04 gsxr1000 with a stock motor, sidewinder and billet oil pan so it can be as low as possible, six inch longer swingarm with DOT slick with no wheeliebar, multi stage lockup clutch. 9.48 best so far. The 1000 is much easier to ride and is more consistant. My '83 gs750es with an '89 gsx750f motor runs 11.90's in street legal trim, stock motor with pipe and jetting with a DOT slick. All 3 have (had) air shifters.