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battery damaged by starter failure??

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    battery damaged by starter failure??

    Hi guys,

    2 - 3 months ago, I wanted to (cold) start my GS850, pushed the button, engine turned over fluently but did not start yet.
    So I opened the choke, wanted to start again, pushed the button, "nothing"... just a click.

    At first I thought I'd check the battery voltage: 12,... V (don't know the exact voltage anymore, but it's hooked up to the charger when not in use and should be full at all times)
    Then I checked that I did hear a click from the solenoid, and it did click.
    Then I checked the starter motor and noticed that it was completely *@%^$*@%^$*@%^$*@%^$ed inside... It was worn out and beyond repair.

    So I sourced another starter, received it yesterday, installed it, pushed the start button, "nothing"... just the click again.
    When hooked up to my car battery, the starter runs smooth though...

    It seems to be a faulty battery now, but it still has 12,3V although the voltage drops to 10-ish volts when just turning the key on... And the voltage between the (activated) solenoid and the frame is 9-ish V... Too low to turn over the starter I guess. It's not even moving a little. It probably can't provide the needed current anymore.

    Is it possible that the battery somehow got damaged when the original starter motor cut out? Because the battery seemed to be fine before the starter gave up, and now it's a plastic box'o crap. I will replace it when the stores here in Belgium open up again, but I wanted to check with you, smart GS people, first to make sure I will not damage the new one!

    thx! Maxim

    #2
    You should avoid leaving a battery on a charger for long periods....not needed and can slowly kill them. do this quick test and report all 6 results on here

    1981 gs650L

    "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

    Comment


      #3
      The starter was marginal and probably for a long time.
      It is what killed your battery not the other way around.
      1983 GS 550 LD
      2009 BMW K1300s

      Comment


        #4
        I just ran a few tests (but did not try to start again with the dead battery and the carbs are off anyway). I don't have the best multi meter but it should at least give an indication.
        These are the results:

        Right after disconnecting the battery tender: 12,57V
        After 5 min without turning on the ignition or anything: 12,52V
        Right after turning on the ignition key the voltage dropped immediately to 11,20V and kept going down to 9,87V after 20s.
        When turning on the lights it dropped even further to 6,72V.

        I also measured the current draw when just turning the key on (without lights or anything): 0,73A
        0,73A x 11,20V = 8,2W. I think this is a reasonable power draw for 3 little dash lights right? (oil P, side stand and neutral indicator lights)
        I was a little surprised to see there also seemed to be a little current flowing without turning the key: 0,002A. What could this be? Or is it something not to worry about?

        The R/R looks quite shiny compared to other components, making me believe that it has already been replaced by a PO.
        When I just got the bike a year ago, I did test the R/R and it measured fine back then.
        I will though measure it again when a new battery comes in and I've put my bike back together.

        15 min after testing the battery voltage was back to 12,23V.

        Comment


          #5
          ////////////quote
          After 5 min without turning on the ignition or anything: 12,52V
          Right after turning on the ignition key the voltage dropped immediately to 11,20V and kept going down to 9,87V after 20s.
          ////////////endquote

          Should not drop that much. 8 watts of power draw (instrument lights) should not drop the volts that much, think of it as the battery is smaller than it should be. THink of it as an air compressor tank with a big tank verse a small tank, draw out a little bit of air and the pressure drops a lot so is a small tank.

          Bad battery.

          ANd no, the starter going bad didnt kill the battery. Actaully the starter going bad was easier on the battery in that it didnt draw as much current. But yah, did have to crank longer to get engine to start and in doing so drawed the battery down lower before started. Can be a problem if draw battery down, and then leave it there for weeks.

          Bad battery. Replace battery.
          And then do the quick check as stated in a previuos post.

          Other point: You say you leave the charger on. Is it a maintainer type, has the full charge light/mode....?

          Had 850G for 14 years. Now have GK since 2005.
          GK at IndyMotoGP Suzuki Display... ... GK on GSResources Page ... ... Euro Trash Ego Machine .. ..3 mo'cykls.... update 2 mocykl


          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by MaximSys View Post
            When hooked up to my car battery, the starter runs smooth though...
            thx! Maxim
            Connecting your bike to a car battery is not a good idea far to much current can damage the igniter and other stuff
            The big guy up there rides a Suzuki (this I know)
            1981 gs850gx

            1999 RF900
            past bikes. RF900
            TL1000s
            Hayabusa
            gsx 750f x2
            197cc Francis Barnett
            various British nails

            Comment


              #7
              Your battery is bad and your wiring harness and switches need cleaning
              1978 GS 1000 (since new)
              1979 GS 1000 (The Fridge, superbike replica project)
              1978 GS 1000 (parts)
              1981 GS 850 (anyone want a project?)
              1981 GPZ 550 (backroad screamer)
              1970 450 Mk IIID (THUMP!)
              2007 DRz 400S
              1999 ATK 490ES
              1994 DR 350SES

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by fastbysuzuki View Post
                Connecting your bike to a car battery is not a good idea far to much current can damage the igniter and other stuff
                Only if the car's engine is running when you do it; having the engine off and the two connected together is fine BUT DON'T START THE CAR
                sigpic
                Cowboy Up or Quit. - Run Free Lou and Rest in Peace

                1981 GS550T - My First
                1981 GS550L - My Eldest Daughter's
                2007 GSF1250SA Bandit - My touring bike

                Sit tall in the saddle Hold your head up high
                Keep your eyes fixed where the trail meets the sky and live like you ain't afraid to die
                and don't be scared, just enjoy your ride - Chris Ledoux, "The Ride"

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by fastbysuzuki View Post
                  Connecting your bike to a car battery is not a good idea far to much current can damage the igniter and other stuff
                  That's not the way it works

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by cowboyup3371 View Post
                    Only if the car's engine is running when you do it; having the engine off and the two connected together is fine BUT DON'T START THE CAR
                    That's not the way it works either.
                    The running car's alternator can put about 100 amps.
                    The battery in that car can put out 1000 amps, all by itself without an alternator.

                    If anything is going to take out your charging system, it's the battery.
                    ... but what in your mind is causing this HUGE draw on the boosting car, that is going to do all this damage? and how is having the car OFF going to mitigate that HUGE draw?
                    Electrical is not always intuitive.
                    Last edited by bitzz; 04-21-2020, 09:58 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      OP: Your battery is toast.
                      You toasted it by leaving it on a charger.
                      New battery, charge it BEFORE you install it, at no more than 10% of it's capacity.
                      Get an automatic charger, something like a tender, plug it in once a week.
                      Clean all the terminals, both ends.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I've been looking for a "Tender" that turns completely off at full charge. I don't think they are out there, they all keep charging just at a very small amount, but never kick off completely. If you find one, please let me know.
                        1983 GS1100E, 1983 CB1100F, 1991 GSX1100G, 1996 Kaw. ZL600 Eliminator, 1999 Bandit 1200S, 2005 Bandit 1200S, 2000 Kaw. ZRX 1100

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by rphillips View Post
                          I've been looking for a "Tender" that turns completely off at full charge. I don't think they are out there, they all keep charging just at a very small amount, but never kick off completely. If you find one, please let me know.
                          Still looking for a charger that does not charge?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by rphillips View Post
                            I've been looking for a "Tender" that turns completely off at full charge. I don't think they are out there, they all keep charging just at a very small amount, but never kick off completely. If you find one, please let me know.
                            My Lidl chargers do that.
                            I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to, but they do.
                            Which is handy, because it means that when I forget they're on they don't do any damage.
                            I must check - I have four of them and not sure that behaviour is consistent across them all.
                            ---- Dave
                            79 GS850N - Might be a trike soon.
                            80 GS850T Single HIF38 S.U. SH775, Tow bar, Pantera II. Gnarly workhorse & daily driver.
                            79 XS650SE - Pragmatic Ratter - goes better than a manky old twin should.
                            92 XJ900F - Fairly Stock, for now.

                            Only a dog knows why a motorcyclist sticks his head out of a car window

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Yep, still looking, both my 3 bank on-board charger & my newest charger in the garage turns completely off when batt. is completely charged. None of the "Tenders I've researched ever turn completely off. Sorry, I don't know what a Lidl charger is.
                              1983 GS1100E, 1983 CB1100F, 1991 GSX1100G, 1996 Kaw. ZL600 Eliminator, 1999 Bandit 1200S, 2005 Bandit 1200S, 2000 Kaw. ZRX 1100

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