Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 49

Thread: Electrical woes - low voltage, starting issues, etc.

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by exzachtly1 View Post
    Damn, I've tried firefox, chrome, edge, and internet explorer on two different computers and also on my phone, I don't see images on any of them (logged our or logged in).

    Try an incognito window without being logged in? Maybe they are cached for you somehow?

    Can anyone else confirm whether they see images in that post? It sure would be helpful to be able to see these
    Try accessing the forum through "https://" or plain "http://". Its one of the many warts of this here site.

    Btw, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to "rewire" your bike to an SPG layout if you can't get the regular circuit layout (as per the manual) to work...I generally follow the principle of "stock first, mod later".
    #1: 1979 GS 550 EC "Red" Very first Bike / Overhaul thread        New here? ☛ Read the Top 10 Newbie mistakes thread
    #2: 1978 GS 550 EC "Blue" Can't make it a donor / "Rebuild" thread     Manuals (and much more): See Cliff's homepage here
    #3: 2014 Moto Guzzi V7 II Racer One needs a runner while wrenching

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Cleveland Ohio
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by roeme View Post
    Try accessing the forum through "https://" or plain "http://". Its one of the many warts of this here site.

    Btw, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to "rewire" your bike to an SPG layout if you can't get the regular circuit layout (as per the manual) to work...I generally follow the principle of "stock first, mod later".
    No luck for me still... tried switching between http / https, tried incognito windows, clearing all cache etc. etc... Is posplayer on your friends list? That's my only theory right now as to why I can't see them.

    And re: the rewire, yes, I agree with you. I would like to try to make it work in the stock setup if I can figure it out, then rewire. I want to fully understand it. Problem is I think the PO already modified it from stock so I have some work to do to figure out exactly what they changed first... I think posting a video later for you guys to see will help. I have got to be missing something stupid.
    ------------------------------------------------
    1982 GS650L
    2020 Triumph Speed Twin

  3. #33
    posplayr's Avatar
    posplayr is offline Forum LongTimer GSResource Superstar
    Past Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tucson Az
    Posts
    23,677

    Default

    As I mentioned grounding was never a strong suite with the GS engineers which over the years has continued to exacerbate electrical problems. Even a perfect stock configuration is a problem waiting to happen, but then I'm simply repeating myself.

    2 of 4 of the wires in SPG is typical stock configuration (#1 B/W ring lug and #2 R/R(-) as I recall this is your extended wire ). The #3 wire bat(-) has been an accepted modification here at GSR for going on 15 years (I did not invent it), and finally the ground is a belt and braces to capture all #4 ground return paths.

    Without #1 and #2 you bike will not charge so the stock bike has to have the same.
    Without #3 and typical corrosion the bikes are known to undercharge.

    Without #4 you will most probably not notice the difference except is certain situations where you are using frame ground to return current to the R/R(-) (e.g. Dyna S or horns).

    The SPG as described in my link simply puts you in the best position possible for continued charging performance in the presence of inevitable corrosion.
    Read about Charging Quick Test GS Charging Health GS Stator

    "The smallest giant of mankind, is he who stands on the shoulders of a larger giant who himself stands on the shoulders of yet a larger giant, and therefore sees the most light from GOD." Posplayr 2017 adapted from : Bernard of Chartres


  4. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Cleveland Ohio
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by posplayr View Post
    As I mentioned grounding was never a strong suite with the GS engineers which over the years has continued to exacerbate electrical problems. Even a perfect stock configuration is a problem waiting to happen, but then I'm simply repeating myself.

    2 of 4 of the wires in SPG is typical stock configuration (#1 B/W ring lug and #2 R/R(-) as I recall this is your extended wire ). The #3 wire bat(-) has been an accepted modification here at GSR for going on 15 years (I did not invent it), and finally the ground is a belt and braces to capture all #4 ground return paths.

    Without #1 and #2 you bike will not charge so the stock bike has to have the same.
    Without #3 and typical corrosion the bikes are known to undercharge.

    Without #4 you will most probably not notice the difference except is certain situations where you are using frame ground to return current to the R/R(-) (e.g. Dyna S or horns).

    The SPG as described in my link simply puts you in the best position possible for continued charging performance in the presence of inevitable corrosion.
    Thanks again. To be clear I am totally on board with going to this configuration. But I would also like to understand where the weak link is in my current situation and what I might have done to mess things up! Since I can't seem to see your photos I've created a video (gulp...) to walk you through the current situation. I think that will clarify things. I tried to explain what I think you're trying to tell me to do with the SPG setup - please tell me if I have it totally wrong. I really wish I could see your pictures because I think that would put the missing pieces together.

    Because I am new to all of this I get tripped up on terminology too so forgive me if I get something wrong... a few things I am currently tripped up on:

    1. When you say "solenoid" do you mean the starter relay, attached to the right side of the battery box on my bike?
    2. You also mentioned "metal side cover" in relation to the solenoid - "metal side cover (under solenoid mounting bolt) " - I'm not sure where you mean

    I'm going to go back through everything now that I can see your photos and in the meantime here's the video:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/G6rKegHuo8Gh3wS88

    Let me know if there is anything else I can show and... keep in mind I recorded this before I could see your pictures
    Last edited by exzachtly1; 07-09-2020 at 06:46 PM.
    ------------------------------------------------
    1982 GS650L
    2020 Triumph Speed Twin

  5. #35
    posplayr's Avatar
    posplayr is offline Forum LongTimer GSResource Superstar
    Past Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tucson Az
    Posts
    23,677

    Default

    The main pictures that are the subject of this thread are in one of my albums hosted on GSR.


    https://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/album.php?albumid=1998
    Read about Charging Quick Test GS Charging Health GS Stator

    "The smallest giant of mankind, is he who stands on the shoulders of a larger giant who himself stands on the shoulders of yet a larger giant, and therefore sees the most light from GOD." Posplayr 2017 adapted from : Bernard of Chartres


  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Cleveland Ohio
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Progress... I moved all the grounds to the point at the bottom of the battery box for now. I have power to everything now, and slightly higher voltage at the instrument cluster bulb (~10v now vs ~7v before)... and it seems like things are a little brighter.

    That rear harness ground was definitely at fault, I think. That was the one thing I really changed just now. And it would make sense as to why "wiggling" the battery previously would have an effect.

    The only thing is that she won't crank now. Starter button does nothing... still have to go get that battery tested (after work tomorrow). Back to the wiring diagrams I guess and then when I figure out why it wont crank... relocate everything to the recommended SPG setup. Feeling a little better now

    Edit: It does crank if I jump the old (now disconnected) piece of ground wire coming off the starter relay mounting bolt to the negative terminal on the battery. I guess that still needs to be grounded... but why does that work, when the old setup did not? A little confused but it seems if I run a new length of ground wire from the starter solenoid to the common ground point I should be good. It's getting dark so I will try this tomorrow I think. To clarify exactly what I did... on the back of the bike I only see one ground coming out of the harness.... this was going to the starter relay mounting bolt via a bullet connector (as seen in video). I simply disconnected that, and ran a new length from the harness to the common ground point. This gave me my lights back but no crank. The ground wire that's now just hanging there seems to be required for the starter relay. Like I said... back to the diagrams but mostly just placing my notes here for future reference.

    Edit 2: What I think I did...



    Not sure how that ground could be bad. I'll need to look at it closer, maybe pull the battery box. But right now I'm sure I can make things work if I just run one more ground wire from the starter relay wire to the common ground point... Just confused because I don't see this mentioned in the notes about the SPG setup. Am I missing a ground somewhere on this side of the bike? Should there be another one coming out of the harness somewhere? posplayer's link says:

    #4: Connects to the (B/W) harness negative ring lugs (typically the one attached at the solenoid mounting bolt). You can leave the other harness ground ring lug (B/W) where it normally is picking up the battery box ground.

    I only have one... at least that I've found so far :/
    Last edited by exzachtly1; 07-09-2020 at 09:47 PM.
    ------------------------------------------------
    1982 GS650L
    2020 Triumph Speed Twin

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Cleveland Ohio
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Question - is the starter relay supposed to ground directly through the battery box via the bolt it's connected to? There is no additional ground wire here, right?

    And then the lead from the harness that ties into it is supposed to use that same ground?

    If so - then is my assessment that the bottom red circle is a "dead" ground for some reason? Battery box not making good contact to the frame or something? I will have to really poke at that and test it with my multimeter but I just want to make sure I have an accurate understanding about how the starter relay is supposed to ground!
    ------------------------------------------------
    1982 GS650L
    2020 Triumph Speed Twin

  8. #38
    Gorminrider is offline Forum Sage Past Site Supporter
    Super Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    4,451

    Default

    THIS? is your main ground cable to the battery? (two skinny B/W wires) NO! it's supposed to be a heavy cable connected to an engine bolt to handle the starting motor. I'm suprised it doesn't catch fire.... Likewise, your positive cable looks to be light gauge, if the red wire with an eye shown

    ground cable-Screenshot_2020-07-10 Video .jpg

  9. #39
    Gorminrider is offline Forum Sage Past Site Supporter
    Super Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    4,451

    Default

    The coloured diagram is...not so clear as the one from the shop manual...which (in my manual anyways) has other diagrams for routing that show connections too..as in, the starting relay grounding to battery box....

    650G routing.jpg

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Cleveland Ohio
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorminrider View Post
    THIS? is your main ground cable to the battery? (two skinny B/W wires) NO! it's supposed to be a heavy cable connected to an engine bolt to handle the starting motor. I'm suprised it doesn't catch fire.... Likewise, your positive cable looks to be light gauge, if the red wire with an eye shown
    Hey sorry if I mis-communicated something there! haha - no - I definitely have the heavy cable running to the engine bolt. That's all good!! I think the photo is just showing a bad perspective. Did you check my video? you can see it better there. I have the thick cable, and I just taped that extra thin one that was soldered in out of the way while I sort all the grounds out the way they SHOULD be. That skinny wire will probably be removed.

    And re: the red wire from the fuse box - that is a new wire but I used the same gauge that was on there. 16 AWG I believe. Should it be thicker? The wire it is connecting to going into the fuse box looks like it might be a little heavier, maybe 14 AWG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorminrider View Post
    The coloured diagram is...not so clear as the one from the shop manual...which (in my manual anyways) has other diagrams for routing that show connections too..as in, the starting relay grounding to battery box....

    650G routing.jpg
    Ah thank you! I looked at this page in my manual before, didn't think to look there again for this. Right - so that starter relay ground must be my bad ground point - it would explain everything. That little b/w wire that was running to the TOP of the starter relay is the main ground on the back of the bike from the harness (all the lights and stuff) - and when it is connected there, nothing works. Now I've moved that ground wire to a good ground, and I have everything EXCEPT my starter relay working! So I need to take a closer look at the "starter relay ground" in that picture. And if I can't fix that then ground it somewhere else. It also coincides with the behavior I saw a couple times before where sometimes a slight wiggle while installing the battery would bring power back.
    Last edited by exzachtly1; 07-10-2020 at 01:21 PM.
    ------------------------------------------------
    1982 GS650L
    2020 Triumph Speed Twin

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •