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Thread: Stator Papers AC on phase and minus battery. 3 times GS 750 '79

  1. #11
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    Thank you for the extensive review, I am very grateful to you.

    No, I thought Generator was also used in English. We say for an alternator (with a motorcycle or car) a dynamo.
    In a powerplant we say a generator (mostly 3 phases and 100 to 600 Megawatts)

    The shindengen wich I temporary used tot test if de rectifier or regulator wasn't broke down is a 5 wire one. SH593

    You should assume that anytime the key is on the headlamps should be on. The rest of the headlamp off measurements are redundant at best and can be misleading becuase they are at reduced load.
    In Europe , we have a lightswitch on our Bikes. Only Sweden has always lights on. But every motorcyclist drives with Lights on.

    ANALYSIS:
    1 I found it quite strange indeed that you have a voltage drop at higher speed
    2 Voltage drop @ 5000 RPM
    3 I did it with Lights on, It's a brand new MBTX14AU MotoBatt but I had to start a lot because the machine has been rebuilt.
    4 I understand your story, but if your four alternators give the same result you start to doubt.
    I should test the used (second hand) alternator , we call that meggeren, reading Ohm by high voltage (1000-2000 Volts) to see if the insulation is all right.
    But such devices are very expensive ( the good ones)

    RECOMMENDATION
    I will certainly do that, but we don't have the stuff (except vinegar) you describe.

    Final note:
    Thanks for the advise.
    A lot of work, partly due to translation

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...Elektra_02.png
    Last edited by PeterBoomhut; 07-08-2020 at 06:46 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBoomhut View Post
    Thank you for the extensive review, I am very grateful to you.

    No, I thought Generator was also used in English. We say for an alternator (with a motorcycle or car) a dynamo.
    In a powerplant we say a generator (mostly 3 phases and 100 to 600 Megawatts)

    The shindengen wich I temporary used tot test if de rectifier or regulator wasn't broke down is a 5 wire one. SH593


    In Europe , we have a lightswitch on our Bikes. Only Sweden has always lights on. But every motorcyclist drives with Lights on.

    ANALYSIS:
    1 I found it quite strange indeed that you have a voltage drop at higher speed
    2 Voltage drop @ 5000 RPM
    3 I did it with Lights on, It's a brand new MBTX14AU MotoBatt but I had to start a lot because the machine has been rebuilt.
    4 I understand your story, but if your four alternators give the same result you start to doubt.
    I should test the used (second hand) alternator , we call that meggeren, reading Ohm by high voltage (1000-2000 Volts) to see if the insulation is all right.
    But such devices are very expensive ( the good ones)

    RECOMMENDATION
    I will certainly do that, but we don't have the stuff (except vinegar) you describe.

    Final note:
    Thanks for the advise.
    A lot of work, partly due to translation

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...Elektra_02.png
    I don't want to be overly pedantic about the use of "generator" other than to insure were are talking about a leg on the stator.

    Glad to see you are aware of meggers; the 5K RPM test is to approximate a megger with the internal EMF of the open loop stator (at 5K RPM). As per spec it is in excess of 65 VAC, but would drop substantially when you put a load across it.

    I don't see any reason to suspect that a typical stator would pass even a 250 VAC test much less 1-2KVAC. Your is failing at 70 VAC.
    If you lower your RPM to 1/2 you should be at 35VAC and you can see if you pass leg to ground there.

    In view of your understanding of insulation breakdown, you can probably appreciate this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by posplayr View Post

    FIRST LAW OF STATOR TESTS:
    ANY POSITIVE RESULT of a STATOR TEST HAS AN AMBIGUITY PROPORTIONAL TO THE UNTESTED OPERATIONAL STRESS.

    SECOND LAW OF STATOR TESTS:
    ANY NEGATIVE RESULT of a STATOR TEST IS A NECESSARY AND SUFFICIENT CONDITION TO DECLARE A STATOR BAD.

    .
    https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...stator+testing


    Note: I see there is a contradiction in the corollary if you exceed the operational range in the test (which I think is happening in your failed test). I need to rethink the wording of the corollary.
    Last edited by posplayr; 07-08-2020 at 07:03 PM.
    Read about Charging Quick Test GS Charging Health GS Stator

    "The smallest giant of mankind, is he who stands on the shoulders of a larger giant who himself stands on the shoulders of yet a larger giant, and therefore sees the most light from GOD." Posplayr 2017 adapted from : Bernard of Chartres


  3. #13
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    I don't want to be overly pedantic about the use of "generator" other than to insure were are talking about a leg on the stator.
    I think you misunderstand me, I used 4 alternators.
    I changed that in the picture of calc.

    I understand that by "leg" you mean a pool of the stator, because I can not find it on the internet.

    If you lower your RPM to 1/2 you should be at 35VAC and you can see if you pass leg to ground there.
    I don't understand this last sentence.

    This one can't measure @100 Volts:
    https://www.reichelt.nl/uni-t-isolat...ct=pol_4&nbc=1

    Peter
    Last edited by PeterBoomhut; 07-09-2020 at 07:00 AM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBoomhut View Post
    I think you misunderstand me, I used 4 alternators.
    I changed that in the picture of calc.

    I understand that by "leg" you mean a pool of the stator, because I can not find it on the internet.


    I don't understand this last sentence.

    Peter
    OK, the problem is that conventional motorcycle terminology is that the wound three phase device is called a stator. Each of the 3 wires of the stator is called a leg whether it is Wye or Delta wound.

    you are equating generator=alternator=stator. I understand now but generator or alternator would correspond to the whole unit of PM rotor and stator.

    You are saying you had 4 different stators. Did you get the same leg-to-grd measurements on all 4?

    >>>>If you lower your RPM to 1/2 you should be at 35VAC and you can see if you pass leg to ground there.

    The open loop voltage (leg-to-leg) is nominally 80 VAC/5K RPM or 16 VAC/ 1KRPM.

    If 70 VAC is causing a failure of the insulation, you can lower the RPM by 1/2 and that lowers the voltage by 1/2 so that 2.5K RPM now corresponds to only 35 VAC.

    You stator insulation may be able to withstand that voltage if it can not do it at 70 VAC.
    Read about Charging Quick Test GS Charging Health GS Stator

    "The smallest giant of mankind, is he who stands on the shoulders of a larger giant who himself stands on the shoulders of yet a larger giant, and therefore sees the most light from GOD." Posplayr 2017 adapted from : Bernard of Chartres


  5. #15
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    I did an insulation test, all 4 alternators are ok. If normally 80 Volt open loop is achieved, I can only think that the magnets have gone bad

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