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Stumped- GS550L Consistently rich with stock jetting

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    Stumped- GS550L Consistently rich with stock jetting

    Hello to the GS forum. This is my first post. I'm seeking expert guidance to fault source and correct what appears to be a chronic overfuelling problem with my 1982 GS550L (BS32SS carburetors). I have been riding and working on motorcycles for 45 years but have never encountered such a frustrating problem and have reached my limit.

    Background - Acquired as a non-runner with 8000 miles in excellent condition a few years ago. Bike was receved with one plug cap removed from its lead and cracked. No running history was available as the original owner had passed away. I chased electrical gremlins for three years which turned out to be internally failing coils. I did manage briefly to get the bike running well with the original coils and had it up to 100mph one day before the coils overheated and failed again, so I know the bike will run strong. After installing dyna coils this year (huge improvement in the size of spark BTW), new leads, new caps and spark plugs, I ran the bike again and had fuel spitting into the air box. All four plugs become severely carbon fouled after less than 5 or 6 miles of riding.

    Carburetor work performed - I dismantled the carburetor bodies (still ganged together), had them dipped, flushed every orifice out with carb cleaner and compressed air, then proceeded to rebuild them.
    At a tremendous cost, all new OEM Suzuki parts were used, including:
    Float needle and seat assemblies,
    Main and Pilot jets,
    Fuel mixture screws and O-rings,
    Vacuum diaphragms and O-rings,
    Float Bowl gaskets,
    Pilot jet plugs,
    Vacuum piston return springs.

    Original Air jets were cleaned and re-used. Choke pistons were left in place during the dip procedure but the choke was propped open and cycled periodically in the dipping process to ensure all old fuel deposits had been removed. They appear to function withiut binding. Number one was removed to inspect the tip and it appears to be intact along with the viton seat at the head of the choke piston. Needle and seat assemblies were gently lubed with a trace of grease to protect the O rings upon installation.
    Float height was measured with a micrimeter in accordance with the excellent pictorial by Ed Ness and set initially to 22.4mm. All four were within .06mm of this value.
    Fuel screw settings were not listed in the Clymer or Haynes manuals but I set them to 2 1/2 turns out.
    The vacuum pistons move freely. Carbs were bench synched and subtly adjusted to restore proper idle.

    The bike fires up effortlessly but the first ride had the plugs foul up uniformly, as described. I reset the float heights to 23.4mm to address the spit-back into the airbox (successful) but with litlle improvement in the plug situation. The Idle also tended to hang more as the bike heated up with the lower fuel level. The bike pulled clean and strong when cool, but ran rougher as it heated up, pointing to a rich mixture problem.

    So there it is. Floats are now set to their limit. What could I possibly have missed?

    #2
    Part (most?) of your problem might be that you left the "choke" plungers in place while being dipped.

    There is a rubber seal on the end that blocks the fuel passage from the bowl. "Dip" basically destroys anything rubber-ish, so those seals are likely destroyed, and not blocking off fuel, causing your rich condition.

    Although you apparently spent a lot of money on unnecessary stuff, at least you got the right parts.

    One other question/suggestion. When you checked your float heights, did you measure both sides of the floats? I have seen them several mm different at times. The side with the larger measurement is the one that will determine the fuel level in the bowl.

    .
    sigpic
    mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
    hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
    #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
    #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
    Family Portrait
    Siblings and Spouses
    Mom's first ride
    Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
    (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

    Comment


      #3
      Have you checked your exhaust? Flakes of rust in the baffles can cause untold headaches.
      1983 gs1100ed restro-mod. 1998 gsxr 1100 almost mint, 2019 kawasaki klx250, 2011 Beta 250 evo trials bike, 2017 Montesa 300rr trials bike, 2021 honda crf250rx woods weapon

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you, Steve. I was concerned about that possibility. I have seen rubber and neoprene parts get reduced to a gooey mess when dipped before, but when i removed the left choke plunger for my bike to inspect it the other day it looked to be in great shape. The end had a small ring dimpled slightly into the rubber pad where it presses against the seat in the carb body but thats about it.

        So I took the plunger to my local mechanic (mostly an old honda guy but he works on everything Japanese as well as HD). He said it looked great and should work. Now I havent been able to check the other 3 yet but the fouling is uniform on all 4 cylinders so i would expect the others to be in similar shape. He's also quite an old hand at this business. My instinct says I should trust him. With that said, he also seems to be out if ideas other than fuel level.

        Is there any other set-up error that would cause such a rich condition?
        The exhaust system is stock and in very good condition BTW.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Offmylawn View Post
          Hello to the GS forum. This is my first post. I'm seeking expert guidance to fault source and correct what appears to be a chronic overfuelling problem with my 1982 GS550L (BS32SS carburetors). I have been riding and working on motorcycles for 45 years but have never encountered such a frustrating problem and have reached my limit.

          Background - Acquired as a non-runner with 8000 miles in excellent condition a few years ago. Bike was receved with one plug cap removed from its lead and cracked. No running history was available as the original owner had passed away. I chased electrical gremlins for three years which turned out to be internally failing coils. I did manage briefly to get the bike running well with the original coils and had it up to 100mph one day before the coils overheated and failed again, so I know the bike will run strong. After installing dyna coils this year (huge improvement in the size of spark BTW), new leads, new caps and spark plugs, I ran the bike again and had fuel spitting into the air box. All four plugs become severely carbon fouled after less than 5 or 6 miles of riding.

          Carburetor work performed - I dismantled the carburetor bodies (still ganged together), had them dipped, flushed every orifice out with carb cleaner and compressed air, then proceeded to rebuild them.
          At a tremendous cost, all new OEM Suzuki parts were used, including:
          Float needle and seat assemblies,
          Main and Pilot jets,
          Fuel mixture screws and O-rings,
          Vacuum diaphragms and O-rings,
          Float Bowl gaskets,
          Pilot jet plugs,
          Vacuum piston return springs.

          Original Air jets were cleaned and re-used. Choke pistons were left in place during the dip procedure but the choke was propped open and cycled periodically in the dipping process to ensure all old fuel deposits had been removed. They appear to function withiut binding. Number one was removed to inspect the tip and it appears to be intact along with the viton seat at the head of the choke piston. Needle and seat assemblies were gently lubed with a trace of grease to protect the O rings upon installation.
          Float height was measured with a micrimeter in accordance with the excellent pictorial by Ed Ness and set initially to 22.4mm. All four were within .06mm of this value.
          Fuel screw settings were not listed in the Clymer or Haynes manuals but I set them to 2 1/2 turns out.
          The vacuum pistons move freely. Carbs were bench synched and subtly adjusted to restore proper idle.

          The bike fires up effortlessly but the first ride had the plugs foul up uniformly, as described. I reset the float heights to 23.4mm to address the spit-back into the airbox (successful) but with litlle improvement in the plug situation. The Idle also tended to hang more as the bike heated up with the lower fuel level. The bike pulled clean and strong when cool, but ran rougher as it heated up, pointing to a rich mixture problem.

          So there it is. Floats are now set to their limit. What could I possibly have missed?
          You say that you have set the fuel screws at 2 1/2 turns out. If these are the ones located at the bottom of the carb bowls on the engine side then I believe these should not be turned out much more than 1/2. It is possible that your setting is way to rich. Happy for some-one to comment as I struggle with getting mixture right between the airscrew and fuel screw adjustments on these carbs. Kev

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Dylan2020 View Post
            You say that you have set the fuel screws at 2 1/2 turns out. If these are the ones located at the bottom of the carb bowls on the engine side then I believe these should not be turned out much more than 1/2. It is possible that your setting is way to rich. Happy for some-one to comment as I struggle with getting mixture right between the airscrew and fuel screw adjustments on these carbs. Kev
            Dylan, wrong carbs

            BS carbs, on this bike, have one idle mixture screw on the top front

            OML, if it's not the choke issue Steve mentions, the next most likely culprit is the emulsion tubes/needle jets, which is about the only part you didn't replace so far
            1978 GS 1000 (since new)
            1979 GS 1000 (The Fridge, superbike replica project)
            1978 GS 1000 (parts)
            1981 GS 850 (anyone want a project?)
            1981 GPZ 550 (backroad screamer)
            1970 450 Mk IIID (THUMP!)
            2007 DRz 400S
            1999 ATK 490ES
            1994 DR 350SES

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Big T View Post
              the next most likely culprit is the emulsion tubes/needle jets, which is about the only part you didn't replace so far
              This. Very often overlooked - I've seen plenty of 'cleaned' carbs where the emulsion tubes look more like mouldy Twiglets than mouldy Twiglets.
              79 GS1000S
              79 GS1000S (another one)
              80 GSX750
              80 GS550
              80 CB650 cafe racer
              75 PC50 - the one with OHV and pedals...
              75 TS100 - being ridden (suicidally) by my father

              Comment


                #8
                Does the bike idle reasonably well, then fall apart above about 1/4 throttle?

                If so, did you install the rubber plugs over the opening for the pilot jets?

                .
                sigpic
                mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                Family Portrait
                Siblings and Spouses
                Mom's first ride
                Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                Comment

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