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tube or tubeless tyres for 1980 Suzuki's?

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    tube or tubeless tyres for 1980 Suzuki's?

    I was just wandering what the thoughts are
    for whether to use on 1980 Suzuki's with
    mag wheels tubeless tyres ?
    I am about to buy an Avon road rider for the front.
    .

    I have just checked on my Yamaha rd 1977 and the
    mag wheels on it as standard
    are not right for tubeless tyres. this just found out.

    What are the thoughts ?
    1980 gs550e
    1980 gsx250
    both with mag wheels.
    UKJULES
    ---------------------------------
    Owner of following bikes:
    1980 Suzuki GS550ET
    1977 Yamaha RD 250D
    1982 Kawasaki GPZ 750 R1
    1980 Suzuki GSX 250E

    #2
    This topic has been debated here many times before and there is no consensus. Your bike came with tube tires, and the rims don't have the safety bumps to hold the tire close to the rim edge in case of sudden deflation. Some early tubeless rims didn't have these bumps, including the first GS tubeless front rims, so it's not strictly required, but it's highly desirable. So the decision as to whether or not you want to convert is up to you. Personally, I run tubes in the tires unless it originally was tubeless.
    Ed

    To measure is to know.

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    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Nessism View Post
      ...I run tubes in the tires unless it originally was tubeless.
      Ditto.....
      1982 GS1100E V&H "SS" exhaust, APE pods, 1150 oil cooler, 140 speedo, 99.3 rear wheel HP, black engine, '83 red

      2016 XL883L sigpic Two-tone blue and white. Almost 42 hp! Status: destroyed, now owned by the insurance company. The hole in my memory starts an hour before the accident and ends 24 hours after.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Nessism View Post
        So the decision as to whether or not you want to convert is up to you.
        This sums it up. It isn't obviously safe or dangerous and everyone needs to make their own decision on running tubeless on rims not designed for it. Lots of people do it without issue, but I'm sure there have been issues for someone, somewhere.

        Just to offer a contrary voice here, I run tubeless on both ends of my 1100E. The rear rim is the correct 'MT' type for tubeless tires while the front is not. In ~10,000km I have had no problems with either end beyond the rubber seal on the front valve stem rotting and leaking a bit this year. It will be replaced next spring and I expect to carry on without issues in the future.


        Mark
        1982 GS1100E
        1998 ZX-6R
        2005 KTM 450EXC

        Comment


          #5
          Ditto that. I've been running tubeless in the GSs for more than 30 years and never had a tyre come off its seating due to deflation.
          Might be dumb luck, of course.
          ---- Dave
          79 GS850N - Might be a trike soon.
          80 GS850T Single HIF38 S.U. SH775, Tow bar, Pantera II. Gnarly workhorse & daily driver.
          79 XS650SE - Pragmatic Ratter - goes better than a manky old twin should.
          92 XJ900F - Fairly Stock, for now.

          Only a dog knows why a motorcyclist sticks his head out of a car window

          Comment


            #6
            I have been running tubeless on the 850 for 4 years with no problems, gives peace of mind when touring in case of a puncture no messing around with tubes. Well that's my two pence worth.
            The big guy up there rides a Suzuki (this I know)
            1981 gs850gx

            1999 RF900
            past bikes. RF900
            TL1000s
            Hayabusa
            gsx 750f x2
            197cc Francis Barnett
            various British nails

            Comment


              #7
              Never tubes on any GS cast wheels, for me. Biggest problem, many places won't mount tubeless unless "TUBELESS" is clearly visible on the wheel (liability concerns). Many GS wheels don't have that notation.
              1983 GS1100E, 1983 CB1100F, 1991 GSX1100G, 1996 Kaw. ZL600 Eliminator, 1999 Bandit 1200S, 2005 Bandit 1200S, 2000 Kaw. ZRX 1100

              Comment


                #8
                I've converted many to tubeless, using a 5/8" counterbore with a 5/16" pilot in a drill to machine a flat seating surface for the valve stem.

                NAPA NTH 90426 valve stems are easy to get or order from your friendly local Napa store, they're the correct diameter for motorcycle wheels, they look good, and they're inexpensive ($4.69 each around here). I would not drill a GS wheel to a larger diameter in order to fit a car valve stem.



                That said, I've never advised anyone to convert. But if that's what you want, I'll do it correctly with the correct special tool.

                If you're not 110% decided, use a tube. And if you convert to tubeless and want to change back at some point later, just remove the valve stem and install a tube.

                I've also never heard of a problem with converting a GS cast wheel to tubeless. Or maybe it's just that the next of kin didn't say anything...


                As noted, this also requires that you mount your own tires. Which is better for your health, sanity, and wallet in many other ways besides.

                If you have to pay someone to mount tires, very few shops, if any, will mount without tubes unless the wheel says "Tubeless".
                Last edited by bwringer; 12-08-2020, 09:31 PM.
                1983 GS850G, Cosmos Blue.
                2005 KLR685, Aztec Pink - Turd II.3, the ReReReTurdening
                2015 Yamaha FJ-09, Magma Red Power Corrupts...
                Eat more venison.

                Please provide details. The GSR Hive Mind is nearly omniscient, but not yet clairvoyant.

                Celeriter equita, converteque saepe.

                SUPPORT THIS SITE! DONATE TODAY!

                Get "The Riding Obsession" sport-touring motorcycling podcast at https://tro.bike/podcast/ or wherever you listen to podcasts!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by rphillips View Post
                  Biggest problem, many places won't mount tubeless unless "TUBELESS" is clearly visible on the wheel
                  That is easily solved with a set of tire irons and a bit of swearing on a saturday afternoon.


                  Mark
                  1982 GS1100E
                  1998 ZX-6R
                  2005 KTM 450EXC

                  Comment


                    #10
                    My bike is a mongrel with bits from 79 through 82.
                    Both wheels have the tubeless mark but the front is not drilled for the tubeless valve?
                    97 R1100R
                    Previous
                    80 GS850G, 79 Z400B, 85 R100RT, 80 Z650D, 76 CB200

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Brendan W View Post
                      My bike is a mongrel with bits from 79 through 82.
                      Both wheels have the tubeless mark but the front is not drilled for the tubeless valve?
                      A proper motorcycle tubeless metal valve stem fits in the 8mm-ish valve stem hole in the wheel. The far more common car valve stems are larger in diameter where they go through the wheel.

                      Some folks drill the wheel to a larger diameter to fit a car valve stem, but I've never been comfortable with that.

                      You need a flat spot on the inside of the wheel for the seal on the valve stem to seal properly. If the wheel is marked tubeless, this will already be there. On some wheels that aren't marked tubeless already, this isn't flat so you'll need to machine the area around the hole just enough to create this flat spot.


                      Motorcycle valve stem: the threads are the same diameter as the cap all the way down. Car valve stems get fatter where they go through the wheel.
                      1983 GS850G, Cosmos Blue.
                      2005 KLR685, Aztec Pink - Turd II.3, the ReReReTurdening
                      2015 Yamaha FJ-09, Magma Red Power Corrupts...
                      Eat more venison.

                      Please provide details. The GSR Hive Mind is nearly omniscient, but not yet clairvoyant.

                      Celeriter equita, converteque saepe.

                      SUPPORT THIS SITE! DONATE TODAY!

                      Get "The Riding Obsession" sport-touring motorcycling podcast at https://tro.bike/podcast/ or wherever you listen to podcasts!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by bwringer View Post
                        A proper motorcycle tubeless metal valve stem fits in the 8mm-ish valve stem hole in the wheel. The far more common car valve stems are larger in diameter where they go through the wheel.

                        Some folks drill the wheel to a larger diameter to fit a car valve stem, but I've never been comfortable with that.

                        You need a flat spot on the inside of the wheel for the seal on the valve stem to seal properly. If the wheel is marked tubeless, this will already be there. On some wheels that aren't marked tubeless already, this isn't flat so you'll need to machine the area around the hole just enough to create this flat spot.


                        Motorcycle valve stem: the threads are the same diameter as the cap all the way down. Car valve stems get fatter where they go through the wheel.
                        Thank you. That I did not know. Looks like all I will need is a proper tubeless valve for the front and I can ditch the tube. The guy who fits my tyres saw tube and replaced tube and I had been making assumptions based on what I saw people doing to convert to tubeless.
                        97 R1100R
                        Previous
                        80 GS850G, 79 Z400B, 85 R100RT, 80 Z650D, 76 CB200

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Until now I have never given it much thought
                          but forcing myself to look at what the tyre
                          man put on bike I have thr following this time ...

                          An Avon RR on the rear with a tube.
                          For some inexplicable reasom I asked for this to be the case
                          in a previous thought that tubes were better on long travels
                          if get puncture in deepest spain.
                          A Michelin on the front with no tube.

                          Over the years Like others I have used tubeless
                          and never had an issue.
                          I am going for tubeless.

                          q) Where is it marked on the wheel rim
                          that it is tubeless or meant to use with tubes ?
                          OR is it left to be obvious with the bump
                          on the inner ridge ?

                          MT I am sure means tubeless
                          WM on the rim means it should be fitted with a tube.

                          I also notice on my avon road rider that it
                          states it is a tubeless tyre but in small
                          letters on tyre says - for tubeless rims use a
                          tube.

                          20201211_180650.jpg
                          Last edited by ukjules; 12-11-2020, 02:09 PM.
                          UKJULES
                          ---------------------------------
                          Owner of following bikes:
                          1980 Suzuki GS550ET
                          1977 Yamaha RD 250D
                          1982 Kawasaki GPZ 750 R1
                          1980 Suzuki GSX 250E

                          Comment


                            #14
                            A cast wheel originally intended for tubeless use will be have the word "TUBELESS" somewhere on it. Usually this reads "TUBELESS TIRE APPLICABLE", or sometimes just "TUBELESS", IIRC.

                            Some tubeless GS wheels do not have the bead retention ridge. I have a front wheel from an 1982 GS1100GL on my wall that is marked tubeless and has no ridges.


                            As far as tires, some tires, mostly dirtbike tires, are still sold that can only be used with tubes.

                            Tubeless street tires can be used with or without tubes; in other words, the design of the wheel determines this, not the tire.

                            Spoked wheels obviously require tubes (although there are some recent adventure bikes that attach the spokes differently, and are tubeless. But that has nothing to do with your GS).

                            If you have cast wheels and they're not marked tubeless, then they came from the factory with tubes.
                            1983 GS850G, Cosmos Blue.
                            2005 KLR685, Aztec Pink - Turd II.3, the ReReReTurdening
                            2015 Yamaha FJ-09, Magma Red Power Corrupts...
                            Eat more venison.

                            Please provide details. The GSR Hive Mind is nearly omniscient, but not yet clairvoyant.

                            Celeriter equita, converteque saepe.

                            SUPPORT THIS SITE! DONATE TODAY!

                            Get "The Riding Obsession" sport-touring motorcycling podcast at https://tro.bike/podcast/ or wherever you listen to podcasts!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Let me ask .. if one morning you woke up
                              and decided to drive 2700miles to Greece
                              with barely any backup (bar this site) or
                              money what tyre would you put on the bike ?
                              a gs550e 1980 ally standard wheels

                              I gave up with tyre levers a long time ago.

                              I suppose the answer is with what is meant
                              to be on the rims. And take a tube or
                              tyre can of that gunge stuff for emergencies.

                              tubes in tubeless tyres run hotter (or used too).
                              I wander if this runs true now with
                              say the avon road rider being a tubeless
                              tyre but on it with small print saying if put on a
                              tubeless rim insert a tube.
                              basically saying that it can do both but "might"
                              not run hot of fitted with tube ? (as they used to as tubed and tubeless
                              were different tyres internally).

                              I ran tubeless on last 5000m odyssey
                              and no probs. possibly luckily
                              UKJULES
                              ---------------------------------
                              Owner of following bikes:
                              1980 Suzuki GS550ET
                              1977 Yamaha RD 250D
                              1982 Kawasaki GPZ 750 R1
                              1980 Suzuki GSX 250E

                              Comment

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