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Thread: How near are we to the end of ICE motorcycles?

  1. #91
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    In 1999, my father built a house on the ocean and decided he wanted to try this new HD TV antenna thing! He went to a place called Tweeter and bought a Sony HD TV with a built in tuner. For only $4,800 bucks, two guys with white gloves delivered it and carefully hoisted this beast up on the custom made mantel. The TV barely fit, although it was not huge by today's standards. I believe it was a 38" and weighed a ton.

    Fast forward 4 years, he paid two smucks in a truck $200 bucks to haul it away as it was now a worthless boat anchor. Today, you can buy a larger and far more superior TV for $199 bucks, only 20 years later.

    I suspect the EV industry will make huge strides in reliability, ability and price over the next few years. I can see myself in an electric truck soon.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpep View Post
    Great thread.

    ICE Engines are horribly inefficient compared to EVs for producing motion at least with regard to passenger vehicles. ICE will be around a little longer for large commercial and industrial needs. And we have a long way to go to achieve practical E powered airline flights. But for 99% of the normal daily driving trips we take the EV technology is already adequate. It just needs to come down in price for us to more widely embrace it. That will happen as the number of units produced scale up and the major players begin competing.
    ...
    Short haul E powered flights are very near. Trans Ocean flights still a ways off yet.
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ghts-1.5884479

    Commercial freight haulers are lining up for e powered tractor trailer units, they're ready to convert they see a quick return on their investment. 80% of big rigs hauls are less than 250miles.
    https://www.greenbiz.com/article/8-e...ies-watch-2020

    Designers of ocean freighters are experimenting with high tech wind power.
    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/...ed-cargo-ships

    Unless I have my mothers longevity I won't live live long enough to see the green revolution to completion but it's fascinating trying to keep track of the technological leaps forward. Our time now must be similar to when the industrial revolution began.
    Last edited by wyly; 05-10-2021 at 04:01 PM.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vmass View Post
    In 1999, my father built a house on the ocean and decided he wanted to try this new HD TV antenna thing! He went to a place called Tweeter and bought a Sony HD TV with a built in tuner. For only $4,800 bucks, two guys with white gloves delivered it and carefully hoisted this beast up on the custom made mantel. The TV barely fit, although it was not huge by today's standards. I believe it was a 38" and weighed a ton.

    Fast forward 4 years, he paid two smucks in a truck $200 bucks to haul it away as it was now a worthless boat anchor. Today, you can buy a larger and far more superior TV for $199 bucks, only 20 years later.

    I suspect the EV industry will make huge strides in reliability, ability and price over the next few years. I can see myself in an electric truck soon.
    Me and your Dad, I paid big dollars for a 36" TV , 4-5 years later it died and I replaced it with a bigger better screen for $500.
    1979 CBX, AW440 Maico, GS1150EF

  4. #94
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    In many ways, we seem to have a built-in Luddite compass while science marches on faster every day.
    "Thought he, it is a wicked world in all meridians; I'll die a pagan."
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    HD is spinning off their EVs into a separate brand. To be sold by HD dealers or dedicated HD EV dealerships? It could end up like Buell.

    https://www.webbikeworld.com/harley-...ivewire-brand/
    1979 CBX, AW440 Maico, GS1150EF

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyly View Post
    HD is spinning off their EVs into a separate brand. To be sold by HD dealers or dedicated HD EV dealerships? It could end up like Buell.

    https://www.webbikeworld.com/harley-...ivewire-brand/
    That is SO like them. I fugging hate their fickle nature.
    "Thought he, it is a wicked world in all meridians; I'll die a pagan."
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    Quote Originally Posted by GS1150Pilot View Post
    That is SO like them. I fugging hate their fickle nature.
    You would think they may have learned something from the Buell period and make clear to the local dealerships to not ignore EV sales. Buell could've and should've been successful had they been serious about expanding their market base.
    1979 CBX, AW440 Maico, GS1150EF

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyly View Post
    You would think they may have learned something from the Buell period and make clear to the local dealerships to not ignore EV sales. Buell could've and should've been successful had they been serious about expanding their market base.
    There is kind of an odd point to be made here about EVs: Elon Musk's antics have turned off a lot of people from even considering EVs. Yet without the huge personal risks he took to launch Tesla, EVs of any kind would still be only a curiosity.

    Yes, he's incredibly obnoxious, but even the worst Musk hater cannot deny the cars are damn nice, and that his personal involvement was key in getting things started. He could have retired early to a tropical island, but he wanted to live on Mars.

    Really. Mars is why he started Tesla, then SpaceX.
    https://www.tesla.com/blog/secret-te...een-you-and-me (bear in mind that this is from 2006.)
    https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux
    Whether you like it or not, Elon Musk is inextricably entangled in the history and development of EVs, so it's crucial to read these two articles to understand why.


    And the same point about an overshadowing brand goes for Harley: the LiveWire technology is vastly overshadowed by the looming graybearded tattooed turd of the Harley brand. The bikes are pretty OK, and their tech is great, but the whole thing is dragging around a dead elephant wearing assless chaps. Spinning off makes sense.

    For one, the styling of LiveWire bikes is ridiculous; instead of something new and exciting, they're trying to ape the same old cartoonish dinosaur cruiser look. And that stupid cruiser styling is also badly compromising every aspect of function, just as it does on almost all their ICE bikes.


    On a semi-related note, by all accounts, Harley has hit an umitigated home run with the new Pan America adventure bike. I hope they sell a zillion of them, and that the engine ends up in lots of other bikes.

    But a lot of folks are holding their breath to see if Harley's dealers are going to sabotage the Pan America like they did the V-Rod and Buell. The company knocked it out of the park. All the dealers have to do is not screw this up... but no one knows yet if the dealers are actually willing to not be flaming a-holes to new customers. It's really pretty sad that this is in question.
    Last edited by bwringer; 05-14-2021 at 01:42 PM.
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    Talk about a turd: The Pan America is aesthetically hideous. At least the LiveWire is decent looking (and, really, what are Harleys supposed to look like? Fairings are not all that if you don't like them).
    "Thought he, it is a wicked world in all meridians; I'll die a pagan."
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  10. #100
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    I haven't done it yet, but I'm planning on "testing" the sales folk at my local Harley Davidson. I'll pull up on my new Triumph Tiger. I'll look at the Pan Am like I'm interested. Tell the guy I'm looking for a little more horsepower... I'll see what kind of treatment I get.
    I agree with Brian. Harley needs to put the Pan Am engine in different styles of motorcycles. 150hp gets my attention.
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