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Thread: How near are we to the end of ICE motorcycles?

  1. #21
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    A full charge in an hour, 100 mile highway range, 220 miles in town. I think we will see rapid developments as Yamaha and other big dogs get in on this. I like Zero as a company, so my hope is that they will continue to lead here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GS1150Pilot View Post
    A full charge in an hour, 100 mile highway range, 220 miles in town. I think we will see rapid developments as Yamaha and other big dogs get in on this. I like Zero as a company, so my hope is that they will continue to lead here.
    I think your assumptions are optimistic, but I guess time will tell.
    Rich Desmond
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichDesmond View Post
    I think your assumptions are optimistic, but I guess time will tell.
    Hyundai's upcoming electric is reported to have a 300 mile range, and charge 80% in 20 minutes.
    The Hummer ev I mentioned above, will take a 100 mile charge in 10 minutes.

    Things are changing. Things are changing fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baatfam View Post
    Hyundai's upcoming electric is reported to have a 300 mile range, and charge 80% in 20 minutes.
    The Hummer ev I mentioned above, will take a 100 mile charge in 10 minutes.

    Things are changing. Things are changing fast.
    One thing that's not changing is people taking marketing claims as fact.

    Lets take the Zero for example. The headline number is 220 miles of range. That may be true under totally ideal conditions. But read that CW test. There are two pieces of hard data there. One, a guy "carefully covered 136 miles of mountain roads" before draining the battery. By "carefully covered" I'm assuming every hypermiling trick known to man.
    Two, riding more normally, they used 57% of the battery to go 48 miles. That's 84 miles to empty. And that 84 miles is only fully useful if your route ends exactly at a charging station. Give yourself a little margin for error, and the useful range is more like 70 miles. Then it takes 1.5 hours to get to 75%, which means, in the real world, 50 miles.
    That isn't, for most of us, a practical or fun motorcycle.

    On that Hummer, my question is 100 miles of what kind of driving? Low traffic urban, or 80mph on the interstate.
    Rich Desmond
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichDesmond View Post
    One thing that's not changing is people taking marketing claims as fact.

    Lets take the Zero for example. The headline number is 220 miles of range. That may be true under totally ideal conditions. But read that CW test. There are two pieces of hard data there. One, a guy "carefully covered 136 miles of mountain roads" before draining the battery. By "carefully covered" I'm assuming every hypermiling trick known to man.
    Two, riding more normally, they used 57% of the battery to go 48 miles. That's 84 miles to empty. And that 84 miles is only fully useful if your route ends exactly at a charging station. Give yourself a little margin for error, and the useful range is more like 70 miles. Then it takes 1.5 hours to get to 75%, which means, in the real world, 50 miles.
    That isn't, for most of us, a practical or fun motorcycle.

    On that Hummer, my question is 100 miles of what kind of driving? Low traffic urban, or 80mph on the interstate.
    Oh, understood. These are just claims....but knock those claims back 25-50%, and they are still better than 5-10 years ago.

    The advancements keep coming.

    Our next car will be electric. And in the unlikely event I ever buy another bike, it will be electric also.
    Last edited by Baatfam; 04-20-2021 at 06:43 PM.
    Bob T.

    "That which you manifest is before you." -- Enzo
    "I always prefer to believe the best of everybody, it saves so much trouble." -- Rudyard Kipling
    "...for our existence to hold any value, it must end. To live meaningful lives, we must die and not return." -- Number Six

    '83 GS1100E ~ '01 TRIUMPH TT600 ~ '99 TRIUMPH TROPHY 900 ~ '67 HONDA CUB



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichDesmond View Post
    One thing that's not changing is people taking marketing claims as fact.

    Lets take the Zero for example. The headline number is 220 miles of range. That may be true under totally ideal conditions. But read that CW test. There are two pieces of hard data there. One, a guy "carefully covered 136 miles of mountain roads" before draining the battery. By "carefully covered" I'm assuming every hypermiling trick known to man.
    Two, riding more normally, they used 57% of the battery to go 48 miles. That's 84 miles to empty. And that 84 miles is only fully useful if your route ends exactly at a charging station. Give yourself a little margin for error, and the useful range is more like 70 miles. Then it takes 1.5 hours to get to 75%, which means, in the real world, 50 miles.
    That isn't, for most of us, a practical or fun motorcycle.

    On that Hummer, my question is 100 miles of what kind of driving? Low traffic urban, or 80mph on the interstate.
    That's true many of the tests are done under ideal circumstances, the ICE vehicles are also tested under ideal circumstances. The Zero is still an urban commuter imo, but I expect that will change will it improve fast enough to save them from the industry giants?

    I found a list of EV motorcycles, most of which I've never heard of. I expect the little manufacturers like Zero will get buried once the big guys come on with their EVs, it's a guarantee the industry leaders aren't sitting around doing nothing. Honda is the Godzilla of the motorcycle world and they're not going to let others take claim #1 spot in EVs.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyly View Post
    That's true many of the tests are done under ideal circumstances, the ICE vehicles are also tested under ideal circumstances...
    Not really true. The EPA generates mileage numbers with a test designed to mimic real driving very closely. It's not perfect, but if you're a "typical" driver your actual mileage will be pretty close to the EPA numbers. And in fact the car companies are prohibited from advertising none-EPA mileage numbers.
    EV range and charging time claims are a lot less regulated, especially in the bike world. And of course the small startups, with no product actually for sale yet, can claim anything at all.
    Rich Desmond
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichDesmond View Post
    Not really true. The EPA generates mileage numbers with a test designed to mimic real driving very closely. It's not perfect, but if you're a "typical" driver your actual mileage will be pretty close to the EPA numbers. And in fact the car companies are prohibited from advertising none-EPA mileage numbers.
    EV range and charging time claims are a lot less regulated, especially in the bike world. And of course the small startups, with no product actually for sale yet, can claim anything at all.
    all standards tests need to run at identical parameters otherwise tests are useless for comparisons. Air Temp, altitude, road conditions, A/C on or off, all effect mileage and will differ from epa findings. All that you can count on is a base of comparison for two different vehicles were tested under the same conditions. The mileage you or I would get driving the same car in different locations, temp, altitude will likely not be the same.
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  9. #29
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyly View Post
    all standards tests need to run at identical parameters otherwise tests are useless for comparisons. Air Temp, altitude, road conditions, A/C on or off, all effect mileage and will differ from epa findings. All that you can count on is a base of comparison for two different vehicles were tested under the same conditions. The mileage you or I would get driving the same car in different locations, temp, altitude will likely not be the same.
    I didn't say "the same", I said "pretty close". And in my experience that's true. Certainly within 15%. If you like, check for yourself. Pull up a random car on the EPA website, and then check Fuelly for real world numbers. They won't be off by much.
    Now compare that to the Zero, which is claiming 220 mile range but in a real world test gets 84.
    Rich Desmond
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    2008 Ducati 848
    2002 DR-Z400S
    1999 SV650 (race bike)

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