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    Cu head gasket

    I would like to attemp making the h.g. in copper;
    my question is: which thickness should I use, bearing in mind, I do not own (like most of us) a rolling mill - or a mill for that matter - to bring the plate to the exact tickness, so will have to be in one of the commercial measures i.e. 1mm 1,5mm or 2mm.

    Could the heat treatment matter, I think in the hardened state, it would be eassier to manufacture, what do you reckon?

    Also, do you think that, going all copper, I still need the two studs viton o-rings?

    Thanks very much for your help.
    Last edited by Lorenzo; 05-05-2021, 07:59 AM.
    GS1000G '81

    #2
    Reason for going against widely accepted wisdom, is a somewhat bothersom seep, which had me already change two sets (base, head, tappets cover).

    Original gasket is 1,5mm (1/16") so I'll be able to find the correct copper sheet;

    from what I've gathered, work in a crude state and anneal before install.
    Last edited by Lorenzo; 05-09-2021, 05:38 AM.
    GS1000G '81

    Comment


      #3
      As a general rule for making copper gaskets.
      Cut the copper as bought and then anneal.
      Heat to cherry red and either let cool naturally or quench .
      Both methods have the same result but quenching removes the oxides.
      Use Loctite 3020 spray as a sealer.
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        #4
        some ideas? .I vaguely remember a few things from my Seagull outboard. You will want to practise a bit first so here's a few vague ideas to try on a scrap ......I think folds and crimps in a copper gasket are hard to completely remove completely so be careful. A sharp blade can be better than shears on SOFT copper but is harder to control. ...Without a perfect "cutting mat" ,punching into a tough piece of wood's endgrain,might give the cleanest hole.

        Also, do you think that, going all copper, I still need the two studs viton o-rings?
        Why wouldn't you? I seem to remember my suzuki block is recessed for it there but I could be mistaken....

        Comment


          #5
          Copper head gaskets are for racing vehicles and are prone to weeping. You sure that's what you want?
          Ed

          To measure is to know.

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            #6
            No mat no punching; the cutting is gonna be made by a saw frame for the piston holes, trimmed by half round file.
            OK for the spry, absolutely no silicon RTV, just a spry on both surfaces, Loctite 3020, as Zed1015 suggested, or KW Copper Coat or Hylomar for copper head gasket, or perhaps, any copper flange spry, allowed to get tacky, for about two hours, and is paramount that the mating surfaces are flat, no warping (max 0.05mm (0.0019") and with an almost mirror like finish, with very shallow peaks and valleys.

            Also important, to re-torque the bolts, after a complete heat cycle, which involves heathing the engine with no load, and letting it cool for a night, after which, the head can be retorqued.

            This is what I gathered so far, hoping of it being the correct procedure.

            Still uncertain 'bout the Cooper rings (being copper washers clad in viton rubber. being originally mounted in a non copper gasket, so, whith a copper one, there should be probably no use for them (?).

            Any suggestions welcomed.
            Last edited by Lorenzo; 06-09-2021, 02:02 AM. Reason: Loctite 3020 instead of Loctite 1015
            GS1000G '81

            Comment


              #7
              Use O rings - but make sure they're thicker than the gasket.
              1.5mm copper, I'd use 2.0mm O rings - ensuring they fit reasonably snugly in the holes.
              And lightly countersink the holes you bore for studs etc.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks GregT;
                Anyone happens to have the said rings at hand, so I can order them in the meanwhile, getting the correct OD?

                I suppose I could determine it by taking the head off, but in a cosy and rather crowded environment, leaving as less stuff around, the better... Or, perhaps, measuring the holes in the old gasket and accounting for a mm or two, for the squash? First option would be better.

                In case, the 40x20 cm ( 15,7"x7,8") of the gasket, does not add with the use of a fretsaw, I think I'm gonna cut the gasket in two parts, leaving the big rectangular o-ring to take care of the cam-chain tunnel.
                Last edited by Lorenzo; 05-09-2021, 06:00 AM.
                GS1000G '81

                Comment


                  #9
                  It's not clear why you're doing this when the OEM gasket is easily available and has a far greater odds of success. If the OEM gasket isn't sealing, you have some other problem, and copper will make things worse.

                  It has become pretty clear that the available aftermarket gaskets are very poor quality, so it's always best to use OEM.


                  If you have a peek at some Allen Millyard videos, he makes and anneals copper head gaskets and paper base gaskets for his six cylinder and other franken-engines.

                  This one goes into great detail. He uses 1.2mm 99.9% pure copper sheet.
                  In this video I explain in detail how i make copper cylinder head gaskets and paper gaskets for my Kawasaki Z1 Super Six, explaining the techniques and tools...


                  The correct Swiss army knife appears to be essential...

                  On McMaster-Carr here in the states, a 0.05" (1.27mm) sheet of 101 copper (99.9% pure) in a size I think would work for a head gasket (6"x24", about 150x600mm) is close to $50, plus shipping. Wherever you are, it's expensive stuff.
                  McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
                  Last edited by bwringer; 05-09-2021, 08:40 AM.
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                  Comment


                    #10
                    We have copper;
                    I think I'm gonna start with something easier or rather, simpler, just to cut my teeth and re-aquaint myself with the material.

                    GS1000G '81

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Laying out the shape






                      sawing the outline



                      the shape of things to come



                      annealing

                      Last edited by Lorenzo; 05-26-2021, 11:07 AM.
                      GS1000G '81

                      Comment


                        #12
                        One question; I know it has already been discussed, even here on this thread, but somewhat, the (affirmative) answer, does not fully satisfy that "knowledge-bug" inside my head, as to the way, other than the obvious "if Suziki made it, must be needed".

                        On the fiber gasket, around the outside studs of cyl. #1 and 4, there are rubberized washers (generally called o-rings, but really flat washers dipped in -oil and fuel resistant- "oring" material, maybe PTFE or VITON);
                        since they appear to be magnetic, under the surface, probably soft iron, if I do the gasket in copper, do you reckon I still need them and why, what's their purpose, I mean why only on the outer studs?
                        Thanks
                        Last edited by Lorenzo; 06-09-2021, 02:17 AM.
                        GS1000G '81

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The areas around the outer 4 studs are oil passages, so they need to be sealed. In other words, these studs sit in the middle of the oil passages.
                          1983 GS850G, Cosmos Blue.
                          2005 KLR685, Aztec Pink - Turd II.3, the ReReReTurdening
                          2015 Yamaha FJ-09, Magma Red Power Corrupts...
                          Eat more venison.

                          Please provide details. The GSR Hive Mind is nearly omniscient, but not yet clairvoyant.

                          Celeriter equita, converteque saepe.

                          SUPPORT THIS SITE! DONATE TODAY!

                          Get "The Riding Obsession" sport-touring motorcycling podcast at https://tro.bike/podcast/ or wherever you listen to podcasts!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by bwringer View Post
                            The areas around the outer 4 studs are oil passages, so they need to be sealed. In other words, these studs sit in the middle of the oil passages.

                            A premise: I appreciate all the help given here, and I want to affirm that, I do take responsability for what I carry out, so the blame will be put on anyone else but me.


                            So, do the small bevelled nicks on one side of the stud hole, in the cylinder head hints to an oil passage?

                            Cannot copper provide the necessary seal?

                            I'll post a picture of the "nicks" later on.

                            Still' it beats me, where the oil is supposed to be going from there, if there is an o-ring, it means it can only go upwardly (or downwardly).

                            I guess I need to "study" the head and cylinders as a unit.

                            P.S. they seem to coincide with the doomed chromed bolts (2) on each side of the outer head, and the fact that they are backed by copper washers, would point to an oil passage.

                            Does this imply that if copper washers are good for the top side, an all copper gasket (no o-rings) could do for the side facing the cylinders?
                            Last edited by Lorenzo; 06-09-2021, 03:34 AM.
                            GS1000G '81

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Here is the pic of the stud hole with the "nick";
                              also visible the oil passage.

                              IMG_20210609_144318.jpg

                              So, is the nick designed to break the capillarity or what?
                              Last edited by Lorenzo; 06-09-2021, 09:54 AM.
                              GS1000G '81

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