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Dynojet stage 3 tuning HELP

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    #16
    Originally posted by Kara25 View Post
    Mark speak of the devil. I am just outside my garage I took it for a short ride (the most it could carry me in that condition) up until 4000- 4.500 revs in first second or third things seem ok after that opening the throttle makes it sputter fall on its face horribly I pulled the choke and it got EVEN worse if you can believe that it almost killed the motor entirely.so I believe the needle must be raised meaning I have to move the E clip from the third groove from the top which DJ says is base setting on the second one from the top which will lean things out. Garage smells like gas galore so it must be pig rich. Tomorrow when it has cooled I will also take out the plugs to verify but I think they will be pitch black
    I agree with Buffalo Bill, that sounds very rich. I would leave the main jet alone for now and lower the needle one notch to see if that improves things. Only ever change one thing at a time, never make two changes or you won't know which one did what. Keeping copious notes also helps a lot. Once you get it coming onto the needles OK then you will have to sort the mains as it will bog when it comes onto them. The needles control from ~1/8-1/4 throttle, then the mains take over fully by around 3/8 throttle.

    Carbs don't work on engine RPM, they work only on the throttle opening. To really see what is happening take a piece of tape and put it on the throttle housing. Put a mark on your grip or the throttle tube and mark full open and full closed on the tape, then divide the middle into at least 1/4 increments. This lets you look at the throttle while riding and easily see how far open it is. That tells you which circuit you are on when the problems begin. Your description of revs and low road speed does correlate to getting onto the needles when it bogs, but marking the throttle will let you confirm that.

    Once you get it sorted well enough to run OK you can use the choke test while riding to fine tune things. I find it works best if you go onto a quiet back road where you can change speeds and tinker with the bike without having to worry about traffic. Get up into 3rd or 4th gear so the bike can pull a load without revving off the tach, let the revs fall to 2000-2500 and open the throttle to whatever circuit you want to test. Once it's pulling steady pull the choke and see if bogs, improves or stays the same. When you have it right you will get a very slight bog on the choke but nothing dramatic.


    Mark
    1982 GS1100E
    1998 ZX-6R
    2005 KTM 450EXC

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      #17
      Thanks for the replies guys today I will raise the E clip 1 position (second from top) at first to see if the problem is eradicated. I am under the assumption the distance from one notch to the other might seem small but makes HUGE difference so not gonna take it yet to the first position. As for the mains bill they are already the smallest of the two in the kit it’s the 150s DJ numbering. If even those are too big for stock motor with K&Ns and 4-1 then I am into for a big headache bcs I was under the assumption that all I need is in the kit and I will just have to fine tune it via trial and error. All the procedure up until now shows me how well the ghetto way with the restricted filters worked.. the magic of 2 pieces of bandages 😂. I have to add that I am not looking into building a road burner just want the bike to function as properly as possible without using crazy techniques as restricting the filters etc. maybe in the future I will do a small overbore with +1mm pistons to freshen things up but that’s it.
      Last edited by Kara25; 05-20-2021, 01:59 AM.
      GS674 Hybrid -1965 Vespa 90 -1958 BMW R26

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        #18
        UPDATE. Moved the E-clip on the second groove from third. Smell of gas is gone BUT the symptom remains as before. Gonna try tomorrow moving it to the 1st groove and see what happens. Also noticed today during the short test ride that when the sputtering starts under load if I slowly close the throttle the bike picks up as NORMAL.
        Last edited by Kara25; 05-20-2021, 12:56 PM.
        GS674 Hybrid -1965 Vespa 90 -1958 BMW R26

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          #19
          Originally posted by Kara25 View Post
          UPDATE. Also noticed today during the short test ride that when the sputtering starts under load if I slowly close the throttle the bike picks up as NORMAL.
          Do you think that when “under load” it is on the mains, and as you close the throttle it is on the needles?
          Jim, in Central New York State.

          1980 GS750E (bought used June,1983)
          1968 CB350 Super Sport (bought new Oct,1968)
          1962 CA77 305 Dream (bought used Feb,1963)

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            #20
            I had a very frustrating time trying to tune my GS550T, it just did not like any mods to the carbs. I returned to all stock. It did work fine with MAC 4>1 exhaust.
            In my GS1100G I tried shimming the needles up with a tiny washer. That worked well, but I took them out. Last year I installed a Delkevic 4>1 exhaust, K&N air filter, did a head & valve valve job, and exhaust side porting. Carbs are stock. It really takes off above 7000RPM and exceeds red line easy.
            I have a Dynojet kit in my 92 GSXR 1100 with a K & N air filter, stock headers, and Dyno main jets same as stock. It ran rich in the midrange and would gag at 4000RPM coming out of corners on the track. I dropped the needles down to the 2nd notch then all the way. It now has killer torque 4000RPM up. I never ride it on public roads anymore, it'll take corners at 70 mph where my other bikes do 50 mph, just way too fast.
            It took a few years to understand a little bit more fuel is way too much.
            Keep checking the plugs after road testing, burn the soot off with a propane torch then carefully scrape the remaining crust off with a razor knife.
            Last edited by Buffalo Bill; 05-20-2021, 07:44 PM.
            "Only fe' collected the old way, has any value." from His Majesty O'Keefe (1954 film)
            1982 GS1100G- road bike, body, seat and suspension modded
            1990 GSX750F-(1127cc '92 GSXR engine) track bike, much re-engineered
            1987 Honda CBR600F Hurricane; hooligan bike, restored

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              #21
              Bill of course I won’t stop I suffer from OCD I must admit and I am not a quitter by a long shot I like my things functioning properly (or as close to normal as possible regarding cv carbs and stock airbox) i must make clear now that going to an air box is IMPOSSIBLE. The bike if you can see on the pics on my profile is HEAVILY customized by the PO who has a custom / cafe annual competition shop. The 550 came second in 2017 Greece custom motorcycle contest. Anyway to the task at hand. I am starting to second guess the order of the washers and all the stuff on the needle. More digging in the forums last night revealed people even saying to remove COMPLETELY the stock plastic top donut and leave the DJ washer in its place. Does anyone here can say with 100% confidence THE EXACT order of all the needle components???? Unbelievable Dynojet sells a kit that doesn’t have at least basic instructions. And also the bike has to pass the two year mandatory inspection in October so ITS DO OR DIE or else I won’t be able to drive it all the way to the public vehicle inspection office. Also i am starting to get confused about dropping or raising the needle. I know the basic principle that moving the E-clip UP (towards the diaphragm) LEANS it. Moving it down RICHENS it. The stacking of parts ON TOP the E-Clip is I assume the fine tuning amount of leaning or richening you want???
              Last edited by Kara25; 05-21-2021, 02:02 AM.
              GS674 Hybrid -1965 Vespa 90 -1958 BMW R26

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                #22
                It has to be the needles my friend I am no way close to full throttle when this happens. I feel that it’s on the transition between those two. Midrange is NO GO. It’s baffling bcs even the one sentence <<instructions>> of the kit point that it can be used either with K&N individual pods OR K&N RC-2382 dual oval filters which I have. So it’s not that I have the wrong ones and besides over the years I saw many 550s have the same ones on the internet and be jetted with DJ kits. But as usual nobody says the magic recipe (needle positions etc)
                Last edited by Kara25; 05-21-2021, 01:58 AM.
                GS674 Hybrid -1965 Vespa 90 -1958 BMW R26

                Comment


                  #23
                  The big problem with online advice is, you never see your advisors bike perform in person. So you never have the chance to judge for yourself.
                  "Only fe' collected the old way, has any value." from His Majesty O'Keefe (1954 film)
                  1982 GS1100G- road bike, body, seat and suspension modded
                  1990 GSX750F-(1127cc '92 GSXR engine) track bike, much re-engineered
                  1987 Honda CBR600F Hurricane; hooligan bike, restored

                  Comment


                    #24
                    SUCCESS.! Thanks to Bill and everyone else who commented here! My thought about removing completely the plastic donut on top of the needle was correct. FINAL SETTINGS. 550E with K&N -RC2382 and 4-1 : stock pilot/150DJ mains/ and most important. Spring/OEM washer/E-Clip on 3rd groove/DJ washer/plastic cone/circlip. Bike runs like raped ape HOLY S€&@“€T starts with normal amounts of choke(not fully open like before even in summer months) drops down to perfect idle 1100-1150 rpms and most importantly GREAT MIDRANGE——>TOP END. I should have spent the money earlier on the kit but it’s never too late!
                    GS674 Hybrid -1965 Vespa 90 -1958 BMW R26

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Well that's great! We knew it had to be you to do the creative thinking, solve the puzzle, we can't examine a bike remotely.
                      "Only fe' collected the old way, has any value." from His Majesty O'Keefe (1954 film)
                      1982 GS1100G- road bike, body, seat and suspension modded
                      1990 GSX750F-(1127cc '92 GSXR engine) track bike, much re-engineered
                      1987 Honda CBR600F Hurricane; hooligan bike, restored

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Bill I just Hope further down the road people will see this thread and know what to do exactly and not scourge forever around on the net.! Thanks again for your help! May I ask that in the future I shoot you a PM if I decide to start looking for any more serious performance mods??
                        GS674 Hybrid -1965 Vespa 90 -1958 BMW R26

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                          #27
                          Sure I'll do my best. You sure live in a very historical town, post some pics of your bike in front of some cool vistas.
                          "Only fe' collected the old way, has any value." from His Majesty O'Keefe (1954 film)
                          1982 GS1100G- road bike, body, seat and suspension modded
                          1990 GSX750F-(1127cc '92 GSXR engine) track bike, much re-engineered
                          1987 Honda CBR600F Hurricane; hooligan bike, restored

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Kara25 View Post
                            My thought about removing completely the plastic donut on top of the needle was correct. FINAL SETTINGS. 550E with K&N -RC2382 and 4-1 : stock pilot/150DJ mains/ and most important. Spring/OEM washer/E-Clip on 3rd groove/DJ washer/plastic cone/circlip.
                            I am not familiar with your carbs and the needle/washer stack. Did that lower the needle or raise it?


                            Mark
                            1982 GS1100E
                            1998 ZX-6R
                            2005 KTM 450EXC

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Glad you have it running well. The nylon ring, with or without the thinner spacer on some carbs, have caused assembly issues with several models. If they are installed in reverse or not installed at all, the mixture will suffer.
                              I'm not familiar with your 550's carbs but the nylon ring eliminates metal to metal contact (?), as with my VM carbs, so I'm not sure removing it is the right thing to do. Can you find a reliable assembly diagram? Why would the use of a jetting kit, specifically the jet needle and jetting spacer, require the removal of the factory nylon ring to operate well? The jetting kit parts mentioned should work WITH the factory parts.
                              Just wondering what the purpose is of the "donut" you mention?
                              And on the seventh day,after resting from all that he had done,God went for a ride on his GS!
                              Upon seeing that it was good, he went out again on his ZX14! But just a little bit faster!

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Keith trust me I spend so many evenings after work trying to solve the kit assembly riddle with the DJ kit that I am glad it’s over.! The problem is that the kit itself is awesome BUT Dynojet doesn’t give you instructions for the needle assembly order or in other models with CVs like 750s,850s etc they give WRONG ONES.!! I searched and searched all over this forum and got into that conclusion. It’s just trial and error until you find the correct spot.as for the plastic stock donut that sits on top of the stock needle I think it leans out things due to its thickness. I read that people who wanted to richen out their midrange with stock mikuni CVs like mine were sanding down this donut to reduce its overall thickness. When I completely removed it in one of the MANY assemblies I did it solved my problem immediately and the bike feels like completely different animal. Never expected that much <<waking>> up from a jetkit and an exhaust. Thank god my Getto way of running the bike before the kit with covering the filters with small strips of bandages kept my valves alive and didn’t cook them off
                                Last edited by Kara25; 06-08-2021, 04:17 PM.
                                GS674 Hybrid -1965 Vespa 90 -1958 BMW R26

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