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    Faulty BBQ....suggestions, please.

    I bought a shiny new Broil King Baron 440 BBQ a month ago.

    Looked good, worked well dazzled in the sunlight every day and all was fine for the first ten days or so.....then the weather changed and we got rain.

    Not much rain, but sufficient to reveal a VERY significant problem with this BBQ.

    Water got under the closed lid and flowed down the inside slope to get to the grease pan, where the water filled the pan and overflowed, dumping dirty water and grease inside the cabinet.

    This was a total surprise as I have owned gas BBQs for a few decades, use them almost every week of every year, never put a cover on any of them, and never got any noticeable quantity of water inside the BBQ unless the lid was open.
    The new BBQ is in exactly the same position on our level deck as the Weber unit it replaced, and that Weber never had any noticeable water inside it in ten years of use.

    After the rainfall the entire inside of the cabinet was wet, although little was retained as it simply ran out under the doors or through vent holes.

    I have since seen that this thing takes in so much water with the lid closed that the old comparison of "leaking like a sieve" seems unfair to the sieve, as it might bot be able to keep up

    It is amazing how much water gets inside. It actually seems able to suck it in.

    I tried contacting the manufacturer by e-mail, which is what their owner manual and their website say I should do......no response

    I tried again.....no response


    Tried removing the rubber cushions that were under the lid, to reduce the opening size. No change in water infiltration.

    Tried e-mail again...no response.

    Warranty claim submitted online, with text follow-up. no response.

    Phoned their customer service line. Was told they had never heard of the problem, had no solution except I should go back to the store that sold me the BBQ (Rona Canada/division of Lowes.)
    The phone rep and his supervisor were of same mind. I asked for higher management contact. That got a flat NO.

    Another e-mail sent.

    Went to Rona and asked the store manager for help.
    He has been kind enough to follow-up, phoned me and said he has not yet gotten anywhere but is still trying..


    Meanwhile I tried a leak test with a garden hose. on light spray, with the BBQ lid closed.
    The grease tray is a normal size, would hold roughly 8 onces liquid.

    In two minutes with the water sprayed on the front of the lid it half-filled the tray.

    Similar result on both right and left sides.

    Water also went under the thermometer.

    Water sprayed on top of the lid, flowing towards the back, filled two-thirds of grease tray in one minute.

    Reported this to OMC by another e-mail, with copy to the store. No response.



    Tuesday night we were expecting the tail end of a hurricane and heavy rain overnight, so I decided to do an actual measurement, removed the grease tray and put in an empty plastic bucket directly under the tray position and closed the cabinet doors.

    The results seem impossible, but the bucket collected just over SEVEN LITRES of water.....TWO US GALLONS!

    Reported all this to OMC via another e-mail......no response.

    Reported it to Rona via on-line customer service. reporting.

    They replied unable to do anything because it was not an onlne order, and I shold go to the store.

    Another e-mail response came from Lowes, saying only the store could address my concerns.



    Wednesday I actually did the physical measurements with level, ruler and vernier caliper to see angles, openings, etc.

    the lid and base are uneven but not any worse than expected. The body slopes forward from where the lid is attached and then the edge tapers inward, effectively directing water into the body.

    The front has a 1/16 to 3/32 gap all across. The lid does not extend beyond the front edge of the body, but stops just short of that, so water drops from the lid to the upper surface of the body under the lid.

    The vent opening in the rear of the lid is slightly staggered, the bottom edge being 3/16 inch farther out than the upper edge of the opening. The lower part has a small flange that extends about one inch into the body on an angle of about 30 degrees

    Yesterday I sent another e-mail giving the exact measurements and angles of all components to OMC, copy to the store.

    Still waiting........



    Suggestions, please?




    EDIT:

    I cannot go to the store and get a replacement as they have none, and Lowes/Ropa Canadian distribution warehouse does not have any either.
    Last edited by argonsagas; 09-17-2021, 01:44 PM.
    "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
    Elon Musk Jan, 2022

    #3
    Rich
    1982 GS 750TZ
    2015 Triumph Tiger 1200

    BikeCliff's / Charging System Sorted / Posting Pics
    Destroy-Rebuild 750T/ Destroy-Rebuild part deux

    Comment


      #4
      Thanks.



      I do appreciate the suggestion, but feel that it would just cover up a very significant problem that should not exist:
      .


      For perspective, I began buying gas BBQs about the same time GS bikes came to North America. and never had anything like this problem. ....and I have never used a cover.

      Even the Onward/OMC customer service rep and his supervisor admitted they had never heard of this problem. ....but no resolution was offered.
      "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
      Elon Musk Jan, 2022

      Comment


        #5
        Sorry, but unless the grill advertised it's ability to withstand direct rain with no ill effect I don't think you have a case. Put the grill under an overhang or get a cover would be my advice.
        Ed

        To measure is to know.

        Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

        Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

        Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

        KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

        Comment


          #6
          Remove drip catcher when not in use
          1983 GS 550 LD
          2009 BMW K1300s

          Comment


            #7
            Buy the manus cover
            COVER


            Broil King® Premium Grill Cover 68487 fits the Baron™ 440 PRO


            Broil King's premium grill covers:


            - Crafted from water-resistant PVC with durable woven polyester lining.


            - Mesh venting for enhanced air flow and moisture resistance as well as hook-and-loop closures for a superior fit.


            - Blue accent stitching adds style to the extra reinforced seams. Molded rubber handles make the cover easy to remove.
            1983 GS 550 LD
            2009 BMW K1300s

            Comment


              #8
              Originally posted by Cipher View Post
              Buy the manus cover
              COVER


              Broil King® Premium Grill Cover 68487 fits the Baron™ 440 PRO


              Broil King's premium grill covers:


              - Crafted from water-resistant PVC with durable woven polyester lining.


              - Mesh venting for enhanced air flow and moisture resistance as well as hook-and-loop closures for a superior fit.


              - Blue accent stitching adds style to the extra reinforced seams. Molded rubber handles make the cover easy to remove.

              Agreed that it would work when BBQ is not in use.
              I actually use the BBQ all year, including during rain, so there will often be some grease in the tray and it should not be dumping itself just because we have rain.

              Neither my wife nor I want any part of a cover as we have no space to store it when it is removed. We do have a good size deck, but with table/chairs for six and the other two sides cushioned seating, the only space to keep when it came off it would be in the middle....which is not going to happen

              Also...to your point and to Ed's....Nowhere in the instructions or owner manual that came with the BBQ is it stated that a cover is necessary or even recommended.

              I compare that to buying a car, because a car is expected to be outdoors and exposed to weather all or most of its life, whether in motion or parked, and both buyer and maker expect the build of the product to keep out rain/ice/snow.

              Given that both products will spend their lives outdoors, I see no reason at all why those expectations for a BBQ should be different and, since nothing is stated in the maker's documentation, apparently they feel the same way.
              page 11....maintenance....https://broilkingbbq.com/wp-content/...Rev-M-0920.pdf

              As in cars/trucks, etc. problems can and do occur, and it is expected by both buyer and seller that the manufacturer will stand up for the warranty.

              Here, I have tried filing a warranty claim and Onward Manufacturing/OMC have not responded to either the claim or multiple e-mails.
              Last edited by argonsagas; 09-18-2021, 07:52 AM.
              "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
              Elon Musk Jan, 2022

              Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by Cipher View Post
                Remove drip catcher when not in use
                An easy thing to do, but it would solve nothing because this is a cabinet-mounted BBQ, and the concern is not a few drops, or even just a few ounces, but litres/gallons of water that get free entry.
                "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
                Elon Musk Jan, 2022

                Comment


                  #10
                  Originally posted by Cipher View Post
                  Buy the manus cover
                  COVER


                  Broil King® Premium Grill Cover 68487 fits the Baron™ 440 PRO


                  Broil King's premium grill covers:


                  - Crafted from water-resistant PVC with durable woven polyester lining.


                  - Mesh venting for enhanced air flow and moisture resistance as well as hook-and-loop closures for a superior fit.


                  - Blue accent stitching adds style to the extra reinforced seams. Molded rubber handles make the cover easy to remove.

                  Agreed that it would work when BBQ is not in use.

                  Neither my wife nor I want any part of a cover as we have no space to store it when it is removed. We do have a good size deck, but with table/chairs for six and the other two sides cushioned seating, the only space to keep when it came off it would be in the middle....which is not going to happen

                  Also...to your point and to Ed's....Nowhere in the instructions or owner manual that came with the BBQ is it stated that a cover is necessary or even recommended.

                  I compare that to buying a car, because a car is expected to be outdoors and exposed to weather all or most of its life, whether in motion or parked, and both buyer and maker expect the build of the product to keep out rain/ice/snow.

                  Given that both products will spend their lives outdoors, I see no reason at all why those expectations for a BBQ should be different and, since nothing is stated in the maker's documentation, apparently they feel the same way.
                  page 11....maintenance....https://broilkingbbq.com/wp-content/...Rev-M-0920.pdf

                  As in cars/trucks, etc. problems can and do occur, and it is expected by both buyer and seller that the manufacturer will stand up for the warranty.

                  Here, I have tried filing a warranty claim and Onward Manufacturing/OMC have not responded to either the claim or multiple e-mails.
                  "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
                  Elon Musk Jan, 2022

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Your expectations exceeds this products ability. This particular grille and many others are not built to be water tight. Comparing the inside of a grille to the inside of a vehicle doesn't work either.

                    I have a cover. I pick a part of the railing to hang it over when I am using the grille. These covers can also be folded, tucked away and brought out for use in inclement weather, kind of like closing your windows when the rain is coming.

                    Sorry, if my name was Charlie CharBroil.....I would say you are.....well, done!

                    Comment


                      #12
                      I've used and been around grills all my life and I don't think I've known anyone that keeps a grill outside in the weather without a cover over it. I guess you expect it to make waffles also? A grill is a portable stove. No one makes water proof stoves. It's like leaving your car doors open in the rain and then complaining the interior is wet. heh
                      All the robots copy robots.

                      Komorebi-The light filtering through the trees.

                      You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequences of your choices.

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Originally posted by earlfor View Post
                        No one makes water proof stoves.
                        "You have to buy a $800 Weber" .....

                        and I just saw one at a landscape/greenhouse store for $2k !

                        I buy a $129 char griller every 4-5 years. By then its all rusty and greasy I want to throw it away. I know.....not very landfill conscience.

                        The last one I bought was 4 years ago and I keep it in my garage. It has a pull out tray for cleaning that I line with tinfoil every other grilling. Being out of the weather and giving it a wipe down after use has still got it still looking brand new. I know.....grilling on the deck is a thing but I like not having the rusty/greasy hulk sitting on my deck.
                        82 1100 EZ (red)

                        "You co-opting words of KV only thickens the scent of your BS. A thief and a putter-on of airs most foul. " JEEPRUSTY

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Originally posted by earlfor View Post
                          I've used and been around grills all my life and I don't think I've known anyone that keeps a grill outside in the weather without a cover over it. I guess you expect it to make waffles also? A grill is a portable stove. No one makes water proof stoves. It's like leaving your car doors open in the rain and then complaining the interior is wet. heh
                          Like you, I have owned BBQ's for many years, charcoal at first, then propane after 1980, and natural gas when I moved here. I have never owned or used a cover on any of them and I have always used them all year long.
                          This one is proving to be very different from any of them. .

                          Ask anyone you know who regularly covers their BBQ specifically what happens to their equipment if it is left uncovered and rain gets to it.
                          Most likely they will say "it gets wet", or, in some cases, it may rust, but if you inquire further they almost certainly will tell you it gets wet on the outside only and the grease trays never get wet..




                          For me, using a BBQ cover would be OK when the BBQ is not in use for a long time, which is how I see most people use theirs as they cease using them about this time of year, but I do not use mine the same way, nor as seldom as most do. I use it all year, regardless of weather, subject to only a few conditions of which safety is a big one. They are lightning, high winds and freezing rain.

                          Lightning because I know of its danger, plus, shortly after I moved here, I had to cut up a tree in my own yard, after lightning struck it just ten feet away from the same deck the BBQ sits on.
                          High winds because they are uncomfortable, especially in winter when my hands chill quickly.
                          Freezing rain because it is even more uncomfortable, and it stings, plus it is unsafe as it makes the wood on the raised deck just as slippery as would actual grease and any cooking oils that exit the BBQ when the dam tray overflows with water while using it.

                          Yes, several decades of using them has shown that water that hits an open, hot, grill evaporates without harm and most rain water may evaporate on the closed lid, depending on what is being cooked and how much heat is used, as well as how long the cooking process continues BUT not all of it does that and it is the portions that do not evaporate that concern me.

                          A very light rain will likely evaporate, but in an average rainfall I have seen quite a bit of water run off on other BBQs.
                          In every other BBQ I have used the run-off has no consequence. In this one there can be considerable consequence when the lid is closed.

                          In THIS one any water that gets under the lid runs to the tray freely and it takes only a few minutes to bring it to overflow.

                          This is not an old "bluelight special" throw-away item from K-Mart but a medium-level BBQ that competes directly with similar-priced products from Weber and Napoleon, so I expected it to perform as well as the Weber it is replacing, and the Weber, sitting formerly in the same position on the same deck never had a problem in ten years.
                          Why not buy Weber again? My wife and I agreed on a specific size, which matched the old one and the new Webers come with only three burners, as did the old one, which did not provide the heat I wanted, where I wanted it, especially during winter. This one has a few more BTUs, and the side extensions make it a bit wider, but it has the desired four main burners, heavy stainless grills plus a side burner that I have wanted for some time.

                          I not only have no problem with its operation, I like it and the only negative is the very considerable water intrusion.
                          "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
                          Elon Musk Jan, 2022

                          Comment


                            #15
                            It's one month old and you bought it from Rona ...... I doubt if they'll bat an eye if you return it ....Mind you assembling a new barbecue is a pain in the pattootie ..... I always hated putting those things together ......
                            Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time
                            Originally Posted by Schweisshund I mean, sure, guns were used in some of these mass shootings, but not all of them
                            1983 GS 750

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