Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

When :science goes wrong

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    When :science goes wrong

    The best minds available, applying the best of their knowledge over many years, and how it went wrong.

    It is a fairly long read, but I found this article from The Atlantic to be really interesting:

    "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
    Elon Musk Jan, 2022

    #2
    Heck of a job, Brownie.
    1982 GS1100E V&H "SS" exhaust, APE pods, 1150 oil cooler, 140 speedo, 99.3 rear wheel HP, black engine, '83 red

    2016 XL883L sigpic Two-tone blue and white. Almost 42 hp! Status: destroyed, now owned by the insurance company. The hole in my memory starts an hour before the accident and ends 24 hours after.

    Comment


      #3
      Sorry. Didn't get past the first couple of paragtaphs. What does building a city below sea level have to with science?
      '84 GS750EF (Oct 2015 BOM) '79 GS1000N (June 2007 BOM) My Flickr site http://www.flickr.com/photos/soates50/

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Sandy View Post
        Sorry. Didn't get past the first couple of paragtaphs. What does building a city below sea level have to (do) with science?
        As low as it was, we made it lower.
        1982 GS1100E V&H "SS" exhaust, APE pods, 1150 oil cooler, 140 speedo, 99.3 rear wheel HP, black engine, '83 red

        2016 XL883L sigpic Two-tone blue and white. Almost 42 hp! Status: destroyed, now owned by the insurance company. The hole in my memory starts an hour before the accident and ends 24 hours after.

        Comment


          #5
          Methinketh someone does not understand that science, by nature, understands that "getting it wrong" is part of the equation. If science were perfect, Ron, you could prove that your god exists by pointing at his watch.
          "Thought he, it is a wicked world in all meridians; I'll die a pagan."
          ~Herman Melville

          2016 1200 Superlow
          1982 CB900f

          Comment


            #6
            your 'knowledge' of science is embarrassing.

            (ps "the only thing worse than someone falling for talking snakes and bushes, or a jewish zombie, is anyone who continues to mis-quote a scientist". lol )
            1100 Katana / 1100 ES

            pragmatic not dogmatic

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Rob S. View Post
              As low as it was, we made it lower.
              True enough. But wasn't that blamed on the engineers.
              '84 GS750EF (Oct 2015 BOM) '79 GS1000N (June 2007 BOM) My Flickr site http://www.flickr.com/photos/soates50/

              Comment


                #8
                I read the whole article and was unable to find a single mention of the word "science"; perhaps I missed it?

                Engineering and science are two different things. There is in history no scarcity of engineering projects that temporarily "overcame" nature but ultimately came back to bite us big time.
                ...
                Believe in truth. To abandon fact is to abandon freedom.

                Nature bats last.

                80 GS850G / 2010 Yamaha Majesty / 81 GS850G

                Claimed by Hurricane Irma 9/11/2017:
                80 GS850G / 2005 Yamaha Majesty / 83 GS1100E / 2000 BMW R1100RT / 2014 Suzuki DL650

                Comment


                  #9
                  How does that old Margarin commercial go? "It's not nice to fool with mother nature"...
                  My Motorcycles:
                  22 Kawasaki Z900 RS (Candy Tone Blue)
                  22 BMW K1600GT (Probably been to a town near you)
                  82 1100e Drag Bike (needs race engine)
                  81 1100e Street Bike (with race engine)
                  79 1000e (all original)
                  82 850g (all original)
                  80 KZ 650F (needs restored)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Sandy View Post
                    Sorry. Didn't get past the first couple of paragtaphs. What does building a city below sea level have to with science?
                    I fail to see how or why there is any confusion, as engineers were involved in the planning and implementation of so much of the work for many decades, as was stated in the article.

                    Perhaps how professional and/or educational qualifications are described in other countries varies from Canada, but here, engineering actually requires a degree in science.

                    With University of Toronto as example, prospective engineers must get a degree in science before they can officially call themselves engineers, specifically Bachelor of Applied Science.
                    Last edited by argonsagas; 10-17-2021, 04:47 PM.
                    "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
                    Elon Musk Jan, 2022

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by storm 64 View Post
                      How does that old Margarin commercial go? "It's not nice to fool with mother nature"...
                      Yes, indeed. In this case that is exactly where things went downhill In fact, I had expected to see Don post something along that line, perhaps "Nature bats last".
                      "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
                      Elon Musk Jan, 2022

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "Native peoples generally adapted to this fluidity, shoring up the land or moving to higher ground as floodwaters rose. But then European imperialists came to colonize. Colonization meant permanency, and permanency meant imposing engineering rigidity on this soft, wet landscape: levees to keep water out, canals to dry soil, and in time, pumps to push and lift water out of canals lined with floodwalls."

                        You might argue that the native peoples were the scientists here.
                        There is a town 20km north of here that decided that the old stone bridge was insufficient and they needed a second.
                        Consultants got to work and a beautiful flat bridge was built in sharp contrast to the vaulted arches of the old pointy head stone bridge.
                        Within a decade the river had blocked the inadequate 'arches' and water rose over the handrails.
                        Now the same consultants are talking about the need for a better bridge.
                        Unfortunately the old bridge was so good that the builders had long since passed are were not around to be interviewed.
                        Nevertheless an engineer worth his salt has to be looking upstream and asking why did they do it that way.
                        They may not have had CAD but that doesn't mean they were dumb.
                        Quite the reverse in fact.
                        97 R1100R
                        Previous
                        80 GS850G, 79 Z400B, 85 R100RT, 80 Z650D, 76 CB200

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by argonsagas View Post
                          I fail to see how or why there is any confusion, as engineers were involved in the planning and implementation of so much of the work for many decades, as was stated in the article.

                          Perhaps how professional and/or educational qualifications are described in other countries varies from Canada, but here, engineering actually requires a degree in science.

                          With University of Toronto as example, prospective engineers must get a degree in science before they can officially call themselves engineers, specifically Bachelor of Applied Science.
                          " Applied Science " isn't a science degree. It's an engineering degree. The clue is in the name " applying the science " which is the definition of what an engineer does .... The scientist comes up with the idea and the engineer makes it work .....
                          Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time
                          Originally Posted by Schweisshund I mean, sure, guns were used in some of these mass shootings, but not all of them
                          1983 GS 750

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by bccap View Post
                            " Applied Science " isn't a science degree. It's an engineering degree. The clue is in the name " applying the science " which is the definition of what an engineer does .... The scientist comes up with the idea and the engineer makes it work .....
                            Ya and a bachelor's degree in the arts makes someone an artist. LOL.
                            '84 GS750EF (Oct 2015 BOM) '79 GS1000N (June 2007 BOM) My Flickr site http://www.flickr.com/photos/soates50/

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by bccap View Post
                              " Applied Science " isn't a science degree. It's an engineering degree. The clue is in the name " applying the science " which is the definition of what an engineer does .... The scientist comes up with the idea and the engineer makes it work .....
                              Semantics. The word "scientist" was not used, however the word "science" was. That word is a broad and general term used for studies in many areas, such as chemistry, biology, flight, and dozens more. Ultimately, all of those who become formally equipped with such knowledge use.....apply....their knowledge to their chosen field of endeavour .

                              Perhaps we can agree on this: the reality in New Orleans is there were many people whose advanced level(s) of education saw them become fully educated/trained in accordance with the science standards of the period in which they acquired their expert status through education and they became formally qualified in how to "apply the science".

                              Having formally learned the latest scientific knowledge of the day multiple engineers applied their expertise/acquired scientific knowledge over a span of many decades, however their collective efforts at "applying the science", led to conditions that altered what the article states were originally stable, above sea-level, conditions of the land and thus portions of the City of New Orleans that had been subjected to application of known and established science sank below sea level
                              "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
                              Elon Musk Jan, 2022

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X