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Seriously...WHAT IS THE DEAL....

  • Thread starter Thread starter bighamms
  • Start date Start date
B

bighamms

Guest
Ok, I am completely frustrated. My recent purchase won't start. Here's what I've done so far:

Fresh carbs (complete rebuild including new o-rings, new jets, chem dip, all circuits blown out)
New battery
Petcock rebuilt
New fuel lines
New vacuum lines (on carbs and from motor to airbox)
New NGK plugs gapped to spec (check for spark and it was getting plenty)
New solenoid
New starter switch
Airbox to carb boot sealed with foam

So at this point, the bike turns over and sounds strong, but just won't fire up. It's doesn't have a kick start, so I can't manually start it. Have to rely on the electric start. The battery is fully charged and I have the trickle/jump starter hooked up to make sure i'm getting max amps.

HELP....I've tried everything i can think of.

Here's a short video, have a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOrhr8f3vyY
 
I did not see any mention of the coil in your post, that's all it can be based on everything you have done.

Choke open? do not give it any gas while it is choked..
 
do u have the vacum line and the gas line on the petcock on the right ones. i mixed them up and needless to say i got mad lol and my bike wouldnt start
 
@all...double checked the fuel/vacuum lines. Both were/are in the proper order. Tried full chock, no throttle and still turns over. Then i couldn't help myself and tried full chock and gave is some gas and got a backfire so load that i might have just pee'd a little (i'm in my garage so the backfire had a hell of an echo).
 
Try turning up your idle speed setting a little and check your carbs by removing the bowl drain plugs to make sure you have gas in the carbs. If so, remove the plug caps, install a fresh plug into each cap, lay the plug against the side of the engine and hit the starter to turn over the engine. You should see spark on both plugs. Gas or spark. One of the either is missing.

Good luck and don't give up.
 
Are the float bowls full of fuel?
Is there at least a little bit of compression? If not, have the valves been adjusted?

Could the ignition or the cam timing be way off, like the spark is firing on the wrong stroke or something?
 
6 seconds of excitement

6 seconds of excitement

@all...ok, it fired up... ran for about 6 seconds and then shut off. Tried to restart it several times, with no lucks... smells like progress. I didn't think to note choke position, throttle position or petcock position when it fired up. All of which were tweaked several times in an attempt to get another 6+ second run.

Any ideas.

@tkent...valves have not been adjusted. This is one of the few things I've shy'd away from. Just not sure i completely understand the process even though i've studied all the literature on this site.
 
Pull athe plugs and hold your thumb over each plug hole to see if you're getting compression. When you pull the plugs make note if they are wet or dry.
Carbs could be way out of synch causing trouble. Did you bench synch them? You might try pouring a tablespoon of gas down each plug hole before installing the plugs again to see if that gets it going.
 
Even though this is not likely the problem I strongly suggest you stop what you are doing and adjust the valves. Valve adjustments are NOT optional. When you are done try checking your petcock to see if it flows strongly. Sounds like the carbs are not filling with fuel.
 
@nessism....i took the tank off which is about 1/2 full of fuel. Leaving the petcock on with vacuum installed I gave a few quick sucks on the vacuum line and the fuel flows out like Bud Light on a hot day. Petcock seems to function properly in both the RES and ON position. Just to restate, my petcock does NOT have a PRIME position. Also, i've checked the float screw on both carbs and there is definitely fuel in the carbs.

@dave83...when sitting on the bike, the right coil wire is going to the right plug and left wire to left plug....is this the correct setup?

@old chopper...followed your advice and damn near got my finger sucked down the plug whole. I've never used a compression tool, but am assuming that the amount of push pull coming out of the plug holes is a good thing. I checked both plugs and the right one was wet but the left was bone dry.....I'm assuming this is not how it's supposed to be. Also put a little gas down the left hole but that didn't help the bike fire up.
 
Nessism said:
Even though this is not likely the problem I strongly suggest you stop what you are doing and adjust the valves. Valve adjustments are NOT optional. When you are done try checking your petcock to see if it flows strongly. Sounds like the carbs are not filling with fuel.
Click to expand...

Isn't hard starting one of the top issues caused by mal-adjusted valves? I mucked up a valve adjustment on my bike, and spent a day trying to figure out why it wouldn't start before I remembered. Bighamms, if you can swing a carb rebuild, you can certainly handle a valve adjustment, and like Nessism said, it's a completely mandatory procedure, and one you'll be doing often if you put any sort of mileage on that motorscoot.
 
It can be hard to find the right idle setting. I believe 1 full turn off of contact with the screw is about right.

Did you make any changes to the idle mixture screws on the carbs? Or better yet did you take them out or leave them in when you dipped the carb bodies?? These could send the mixture off far enough to make it hard to start.

To check if you are having a fueling problem, blow compressed air into the vent lines, or use a liberal amount of starting fluid into the airbox intake (without removing the cover). It should sputter or do SOMETHING.


Based on the lack of sputtering though in your video, I am guessing you are experiencing poor or inconsistent spark. To check spark use a spare plug touching the engine metal to see how it looks. These are CDI, so hopefully spark will be good. Not a lot of reasons for them to fail that are cheap.

Valves adjustments are no that bad to do. The biggest pain is: 1) tracking down some shims, and 2) cleaning up the valve cover surfaces. If you have some time, I suggest checking the stamped size on each shim, and ordering the next 2 smaller sizes for each valve. This will make the job MUCH easier as you will be able to swap them around both this time and several more times into the future.
 
Ok, so i've been watching this thread for the last day waiting for somebody to step up and say; "hey, it's simple, all you have to do is....."

That didn't happen so it looks like it's time to adjust the valves. I don't remember where i found the tutorial. Can anyone point me in the right direction.

Side note....I really appreciate all the people on this site. EVERY time i log on, i get a shot of confidence. thanks guys.

rob
 
@tkent....thanks dude. that is exactly what i was looking for.

I do have one more question. Yesterday when i was messing with the bike it was suggested that I should check for spark and determine whether whether the plugs were wet or dry. I'm assuming that the plugs should be slightly wet in order for the spark to ignite the gasoline......right? One of my plugs is always dry. Today I went back through all the suggestions on this thread including checking for spark....I got nothing. Yesterday, i had spark. when i did a quick search on youtube, the spark i was seeing was very strong and blue. Yesterday, mine where very weak and seemed to dance around the plug. Today, i checked them again, and i don't have spark at all.

So, I'm thinking that I want to replace the coils (sense i've replaced everything else). Where is the best place to buy a new set of coils? also, if new is not required, do all gs models use the same coil (ie, can i pick up a used gsXXX on ebay and be confident it won't ruin anything)
 
bighamms said:
@tkent....thanks dude. that is exactly what i was looking for.

I do have one more question. Yesterday when i was messing with the bike it was suggested that I should check for spark and determine whether whether the plugs were wet or dry. I'm assuming that the plugs should be slightly wet in order for the spark to ignite the gasoline......right? One of my plugs is always dry. Today I went back through all the suggestions on this thread including checking for spark....I got nothing. Yesterday, i had spark. when i did a quick search on youtube, the spark i was seeing was very strong and blue. Yesterday, mine where very weak and seemed to dance around the plug. Today, i checked them again, and i don't have spark at all.

So, I'm thinking that I want to replace the coils (sense i've replaced everything else). Where is the best place to buy a new set of coils? also, if new is not required, do all gs models use the same coil (ie, can i pick up a used gsXXX on ebay and be confident it won't ruin anything)
Click to expand...
You can use coils from later model Suzukis; GSXR, Bandit, or Katana. If they look the same as the stockers they will work. You might do a search for the coil relay mod and try that first. At least make sure you're getting 12 volts to the coils. The orange/white wires to the coils are positive and always hot. A ground signal is what fires the coils. That makes it easy to check your voltage at the coils.
 
Ok, New development

Ok, New development

I decided to check for spark one last time. This time I took out the right plug, grounded on engine and turned it over. At first, i had no spark, then I let it crank for for about 10 seconds and started getting spark. It looked weak to me, but there was spark. SOOOO, i put it back in the bike and tried the Left plug also letting it turn for 5-7 seconds.....and low and behold, it fired up. the bike just started and ran as long as i kept pressing the start button. So i let it die, then tried it again, and got the same result, but this time I gas it, and it responded well.

so, what would make the bike run with one plug out???? Help...
 
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