Non political gun question

[earlfor]

Wow, I'm in the United Kingdom ... this whole thread is a real eye opener.

In what way? Just curious. I realize there is a gun problem in the U.S. However, it is not and never has been due to those that have a legal carry permit.

[eddypeck]

I just found it strange and almost educational to see a conversation talking about guns as such a normal every day part of life. Even the police don't carry here, not generally anyway, although recent years has seen an increase in armed officers.

It's not a negative statement, so hope it wasn't seen as such. It's actually the opposite to see a bunch of guys just talking about guns, permits and carrying them without the mystique surrounding the whole subject. It normalizes the subject and shows it can be discussed with respect and understanding for the responsibility that comes with ownership.

It's nothing I've come across before we only get the propaganda stories on telly or in the papers. We get 'undercover' documentaries into gun crime etc, or the cop or crime shows and that's basically where our perception of guns in America comes from.

As for the particular permits, I also always find it hard to comprehend how you manage to have different laws in different states. I've never been to the US so I don't think I really appreciate the size of it as a place.

The UK is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - like 4 countries making one bigger country. You could say these are our States, although laws across them all are pretty much the same (very few regional variations). And I use "bigger" very loosely, I've just Googled and the UK in it's entirety is about a third the size of Texas... and half the size of California. So I'm feeling very 'small' and insignificant now coming from my tiny island!

[Spyder]

^^^ Very interesting perspective from the UK ^^^ In itself very educational as well...

[GS1150Pilot]

Eddy, I envy you a gun-free nation. Having spent five years in various law enforcement roles, guns became part of my daily life, and, when I left such work-though I turned in all three of my issue weapons (Glock 21, AR-15 and Remington 870), I ended up having a gun from then on. I don't carry around town, and I really dislike the change in laws that allows guns to come into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, but when I am out in the boondocks, I carry openly. I've run into mountain lions and bears (never with any real worry), but the bigger concern I have is with human idiots out there.

[Hinermad]

It's nothing I've come across before we only get the propaganda stories on telly or in the papers. We get 'undercover' documentaries into gun crime etc, or the cop or crime shows and that's basically where our perception of guns in America comes from.

That's where a lot of Americans get their perception of guns and gun owners too - crime dramas and news articles written by reporters with no knowledge of how guns work or why a "law abiding" citizen would own one. It makes things difficult when those of us who understand guns, their correct use, and the laws governing them try to have a reasonable discussion about them with the general public. The assumption is that the only reason to own a gun is to commit a crime. (In fact, I own a gun to defend myself from anyone who intends to commit a violent crime on me. I work in a rough neighborhood. But not everyone understands that reasoning.)

As for the particular permits, I also always find it hard to comprehend how you manage to have different laws in different states. I've never been to the US so I don't think I really appreciate the size of it as a place.

We have an odd history. The U.S. was created from thirteen original British colonies, each having its own governor appointed by the Crown. Some colonies were founded directly by the government of England for (usually) economic purposes, to commercially exploit certain resources. Other colonies were land grants as payments to creditors to the Crown. (Pennsylvania is a good example. William Penn, a Quaker and the son of a man to whom King Charles II owed money, was granted land in the New World as payment for the debt. It also got Penn, a proponent of democracy, out of the King's hair.)

When revolutionaries in the colonies proposed to split from England to create their own nation, the governors and general assemblies of the colonies did not want to give up their sovereignty. Otherwise they'd just be trading an uncaring government in England for an uncaring government in North America. Each colony had its own needs and goals: those in the South were primarily agricultural (growing tobacco and cotton) while those of the Mid-Atlantic and New England regions were industrial, or engaged in harvesting natural resources like timber, or in shipping and trade. So the early government of the U.S. had to be careful to allow individual states to retain many rights and responsibilities that would normally be handled at the federal level in England, or in Commonwealth nations like Canada.

It's a little bit like the Euriopean Union. They try to present a common face to the world, but each member nation has its own needs, goals, and attitudes.

The UK is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - like 4 countries making one bigger country. You could say these are our States, although laws across them all are pretty much the same (very few regional variations). And I use "bigger" very loosely, I've just Googled and the UK in it's entirety is about a third the size of Texas... and half the size of California. So I'm feeling very 'small' and insignificant now coming from my tiny island!

There's a saying, "In Europe 200 miles is a long way, and in America 200 years is a long time." For me to drive from my home in New York to visit my family in Ohio takes about eight hours. That's about an hour more than it takes to drive from London to Edinburgh. And I only have to cross one other state (Pennsylvania) to do it. So yes, things are big and spread out here. I think that contributes to the differences in attitudes about laws. Large population centers (the Northeast, Southern California, and Chicago) tend to have more crime and thus stricter laws, while the wide open spaces in between are more relaxed.

[GSXR7ED]

I just found it strange and almost educational to see a conversation talking about guns as such a normal every day part of life. Even the police don't carry here, not generally anyway, although recent years has seen an increase in armed officers.

It's not a negative statement, so hope it wasn't seen as such. It's actually the opposite to see a bunch of guys just talking about guns, permits and carrying them without the mystique surrounding the whole subject. It normalizes the subject and shows it can be discussed with respect and understanding for the responsibility that comes with ownership.

It's nothing I've come across before we only get the propaganda stories on telly or in the papers. We get 'undercover' documentaries into gun crime etc, or the cop or crime shows and that's basically where our perception of guns in America comes from.

As for the particular permits, I also always find it hard to comprehend how you manage to have different laws in different states. I've never been to the US so I don't think I really appreciate the size of it as a place.

The UK is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - like 4 countries making one bigger country. You could say these are our States, although laws across them all are pretty much the same (very few regional variations). And I use "bigger" very loosely, I've just Googled and the UK in it's entirety is about a third the size of Texas... and half the size of California. So I'm feeling very 'small' and insignificant now coming from my tiny island!

That's the perspective my wife's family relayed to me. My wife is Scottish but raised in England. I lived in East Anglia from 1989 to 1993; Braintree in Essex county, and Bury St Edmunds and Newmarket in Suffolk county. I was US Air Force and stationed at RAF Wethersfield then RAF Mildenhall. Me being in the military explained why I used a firearm to my in-laws but not outside the base. Thanks for explaining your side and showing the fascination of how us Americans live over here.

Eddy, I envy you a gun-free nation. Having spent five years in various law enforcement roles, guns became part of my daily life, and, when I left such work-though I turned in all three of my issue weapons (Glock 21, AR-15 and Remington 870), I ended up having a gun from then on. I don't carry around town, and I really dislike the change in laws that allows guns to come into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol, but when I am out in the boondocks, I carry openly. I've run into mountain lions and bears (never with any real worry), but the bigger concern I have is with human idiots out there.

I grew up in LA/SoCal and the gang bangers that lived among us owned a gun (not only to protect themselves) to protect their territory. I steered clear of those neighborhoods and kept my head down when crossing paths with those guys.

I could see why you kept your guns Pilot. There are terrible people out there.


Ed

[swanny]

If one employs situational awareness similar to constantly scanning traffic while riding open carry is a non-issue. Fortunately one has the choice to CC or OC the same as one has the ability to ride or not ride.

If situational awareness was 100%, then there would be no unforeseen motorcycle accidents.

Everyone can do what they feel is best, but I prefer to not let anyone know I'm carrying. Why? As just one example. if a team is considering robbing a place of business, they would send in a scout first. The scout would identify you as a threat and either postpone the robbery, or target you first. If would be a bad outcome for oc. It's happened before so I'm not making this up.

There isn't a man alive that I couldn't take their exposed weapon from if I wanted. Just walk up and taze your ass and it's mine. Not that I'm a bad ass, it's just not that hard.

I just don't see an upside that outweighs the downside of oc around town. To each his own and I support your right to do it if it's not against the law. It is in Denver and many large cities.

I will oc when in the wild (I live in Colorado) as my preferred sidearm is a S&W 626 Plus and it's not an easily concealable weapon.

[roeme]

I'll resist the temptation to add the swiss perspective here, since I can only offer societal/political insights; not the topic of this thread and would make it vortexy, methinks.

[storm 64]

Wow, that's cool that the cop asked you to cover the back door! To bad someone didn't try to run out the back! You would have been there to stop the them in there tracks! That would have been awesome!

[Boriqua]

I conceal carry light. Open carry is common enough in most of AZ so if you print its not a big deal. I usually just throw some light shirt over my tee shirt and I am good to go. If it Blows up while I am riding I dont care.

My issue is I usually carry at 4 oclockish. I just dont trust a regular kydex holster without additional restraints to hold it and I would hate to see it bounce along the road. I make leather holsters almost full time so I could do something with a thumb break but the position I carry in still gets in the way of my wife holding on to me when we ride together.

When I used to ride my vtx alone I carried small of the back and that was a good position. Stayed concealed and was very secure. Some people around here use the chest rig I showed in the original post when out jogging the trails or mountain biking.

I am thinking maybe about making something like this but it would have snaps instead of a belt and I could block out the inside to fit my gun of choice. Certainly wouldnt be a speedy draw but if your paying attention you should know when to leave the snaps open.


That or shoulder holster setup just for riding.

[earlfor]

I'll resist the temptation to add the swiss perspective here, since I can only offer societal/political insights; not the topic of this thread and would make it vortexy, methinks.

I'm interested in hearing your perspective. I see no reason why everyone can not refrain from making a confrontational and/or critical response of your situation.

[Boriqua]

Come on guys .. please try and not make it a gun debate. I am honestly so tired of politics. I just wanted to ask a technical kind of motorcycle related question. of course you are grown men and I expect you can talk about whatever you like but if so can we make it another thread?? Please

I have strong feelings about gun ownership and would be happy to talk about it in a different thread if we have to.

[swanny]

Wow, that's cool that the cop asked you to cover the back door! To bad someone didn't try to run out the back! You would have been there to stop the them in there tracks! That would have been awesome!

One of the points they cover in the cc class is that you are NOT a police officer and should not act like one. I'm curious if there would be legal jeopardy if something went wrong during this request. While I may have complied with their request also, I would not have been eager for a confrontation.

[gustovh]

Spent a nice relaxing day yesterday loading 40 s&w, going out now to see how they fly.

V

[Boriqua]

Next week I will be cooking up a batch of 9mm. Been playing with my bike so havent done any reloading.