Motorcyclist in road rage shooting

[bonanzadave]

It doesn't matter whether male or female, there is no right to assault.

A woman in a car purposely tried to push me into the ditch by not allowing me to merge onto the freeway. When I did come around her she flipped me off. Had she caused me to crash I believe she would have been prosecuted. The thought of me following her and retaliating did cross my mind but I dont have time for that drama.....

[earlfor]

A woman in a car purposely tried to push me into the ditch by not allowing me to merge onto the freeway. When I did come around her she flipped me off. Had she caused me to crash I believe she would have been prosecuted. The thought of me following her and retaliating did cross my mind but I dont have time for that drama.....

The moment one starts the escalation, they are in the wrong.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

What do you expect for someone that assumes they have the right to get out of their car, knock someone off their bike, and beat on them?
It doesn't matter whether male or female, there is no right to assault. I guess the correct thing to do was for her to curl up, cry and wait until the guy got tired of beating her? I think it's a sad commentary that neither the passenger in they guy's car or any observers, other drivers etc, didn't try to get him off of her and stop the assault. This reminds me of when Pmint was assaulted and beat to hell in a bar she was a waitress in. No one tried to stop it or help her and she spent months of multiple operations and plates in her head because of it, never fully recovered from her injuries and still suffers from them. There is no excuse for this chit. Someone should have shot that ass hat also. He is in prison now, but that doesn't do Patti any good.

Earl, all I read in the link provided, was the man pulled up along side her, a fight broke out, and she shot him. Nothing else.
I try to have an open mind and not assume the woman is some petite thing compared to a ****ed off average sized man. Heck, she could be bigger and stronger than him. Maybe she helped escalate it to a fight because she had a gun to fall back on. I just think her gun has gotten her into more trouble. I also wonder if she had the chance to just shoot him in a leg or ? to stop him. Seems to me if you carry a gun you should know how to aim. Maybe she too was enraged and shot to kill only.
I don't automatically take her side just because she's a fellow rider. I too, have been in some situations that I didn't initiate. I may be angry at first but I ALWAYS back off when I start to think about a person inside 4,000 lbs that wants to prove something.

[trevor]

If you are on a motorcycle there is always room to get away...I have been on the I5 during gridlock and you can't tell me that you can't find room down the shoulder or between cars to make a get away.
I think she would rather be explaining riding down the shoulder to cops then what she's trying to explain now to them. Not to mention the ptsd she will be sure to suffer from....

[RichDesmond]

I think maybe we should all chill with the speculation. The facts in that article, even if they are 100% accurate, aren't enough to draw conclusions from.

[rkroby]

We definitely need more facts. And there is also much misinformation on concealed carry holders. Everyone is different in how they will react to a situation but one of the most important things you are taught in defensive handgun classes is avoidance. Trevor is right, she should have rode away. Your also taught that if you need to draw your firearm and are in fear for your life you shoot to stop the threat. You don’t shoot to kill, you shoot at center mass until the threat stops. Shooting at legs or arms is only done in the movies. Under a highly stressful situation with that adrenaline dump most people and police don’t even see their sights when shooting.

[earlfor]

Earl, all I read in the link provided, was the man pulled up along side her, a fight broke out, and she shot him. Nothing else.
I try to have an open mind and not assume the woman is some petite thing compared to a ****ed off average sized man. Heck, she could be bigger and stronger than him. Maybe she helped escalate it to a fight because she had a gun to fall back on. I just think her gun has gotten her into more trouble. I also wonder if she had the chance to just shoot him in a leg or ? to stop him. Seems to me if you carry a gun you should know how to aim. Maybe she too was enraged and shot to kill only.
I don't automatically take her side just because she's a fellow rider. I too, have been in some situations that I didn't initiate. I may be angry at first but I ALWAYS back off when I start to think about a person inside 4,000 lbs that wants to prove something.

It's all good Keith, just commenting.

[GS1150Pilot]

If you are on a motorcycle there is always room to get away...I have been on the I5 during gridlock and you can't tell me that you can't find room down the shoulder or between cars to make a get away.
I think she would rather be explaining riding down the shoulder to cops then what she's trying to explain now to them. Not to mention the ptsd she will be sure to suffer from....

Trevor, not necessarily. If she wasn't expecting to be chased down and attacked, it may not have been so simple. Not everyone is constantly planning to be attacked, and yeah, I can say that at times, that shoulder may not work as a venue for escape.

As for shooting him in the leg, I think few people know what it's like to be attacked or even in a real fight where the stakes are high. Trust me-it's not a situation you can put on pause while you think it through, Sherlock Holmes style.

[GS1150Pilot]

We definitely need more facts. And there is also much misinformation on concealed carry holders. Everyone is different in how they will react to a situation but one of the most important things you are taught in defensive handgun classes is avoidance. Trevor is right, she should have rode away. Your also taught that if you need to draw your firearm and are in fear for your life you shoot to stop the threat. You don’t shoot to kill, you shoot at center mass until the threat stops. Shooting at legs or arms is only done in the movies. Under a highly stressful situation with that adrenaline dump most people and police don’t even see their sights when shooting.

You shoot center mass to kill. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you a rainbow or a unicorn.

[Boriqua]

Well she was released from custody so at least the preliminary findings are it was self defense.

Having said that I am in no rush to say Poor woman poor woman out of hand. I spent my first 16 years in Rough housing projects in NYC. I have seen big, nasty, hard women who could put a good sized dent in a bunch of grown men. Add to the fact that while we all think we age like wine ... ya aint the man you were at 25 that you are when you are 60. My 56 yr old friend just got home from the hospital after a triple bypass and his back is so shot he can barely walk. I wont tell him but ... I knew a bunch of females that could currently beat him to a pulp.

However, at least in Arizona, you have the right to a proportional amount of force to the threat. The attacker doesn't need to present a weapon in order for someone to feel that their life is in danger and it has escalated to a need to answer with deadly force. If you are a 120 woman being beaten down by a 250 lb man or someone has you and is choking you out, or has hold of your ears and is battering your head into the ground .. they are trying to kill you and you can answer with deadly force.

Lets not forget the hockey dad murder

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/27/hockey-dad-released-prison-serving-time-beating-death-mass-father.html

Without having any details we don't know what happened and what was justified. She was released and there were a half dozen witnesses including one in the car with the now deceased. If it were clear that she acted excessively they wouldn't have let her go. Prosecutors may come back and see it differently but she has passed the initial sniff test.

If the 60 yr old got out and started assaulting this woman and then was relishing in getting the upper hand than he got what he asked for. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

If she felt she had super human powers because she had a firearm she may find that even if she is never charged, civil suits and the like could have her back and forth to courts for years and can make her life uncomfortable.

I am in my 50's and I just had some gentleman in at least his 70's cursing me up and down because he thought I took the corner to tight in front of him. He was coming to a stop and I was going 15 miles an hour?? I just laughed shook my head and moved on. Gotta pick your spots.

People just need to chill.

[1980GS850]

i carried everywhere for many years. on a job about 4 years ago i was movng the van to the other side of the football field and had an altercatian. he told cops later i had cut off him at the corner and he had to brake hard to miss me. anyways i pull into the parking lot, never see him at all until suk pnuched me when i was getting out of the van. i saw stars after that, guess he punched me once or 2 times more according to witnesses but i was out for probably 20 seconds. i remember coming to and he was circling me i was on the ground and i reached into my back gun holster and came up with my 380 and before anything else two of my guys who had come across the field jumped him. that dude was secionds away from me blowing a hole in him over having to swerve and brake hard, ficking stupid! im glad i didn't shoot him though, not worth it. i don;t want to ever face that again so quit carrying after that. imagine dying or killing someone over traffic? not worth it but i can certanly see where the lady may have believed she had no options.

[Rust_to_Redemption]

We definitely need more facts. And there is also much misinformation on concealed carry holders. Everyone is different in how they will react to a situation but one of the most important things you are taught in defensive handgun classes is avoidance. Trevor is right, she should have rode away. Your also taught that if you need to draw your firearm and are in fear for your life you shoot to stop the threat. You don’t shoot to kill, you shoot at center mass until the threat stops. Shooting at legs or arms is only done in the movies. Under a highly stressful situation with that adrenaline dump most people and police don’t even see their sights when shooting.

Obviously the best case scenario involves her riding away from the threat. Maybe she was not expecting to be attacked, and was caught off guard due to not being situationally aware. In my mind, the moment that man exited his car and assaulted the person on the motorcycle, that escalates the situation into one where deadly force can be used. And you are completely correct, any reputable training class is teaching center mass, shoot until the threat stops. I am completely surprised she only fired one shot; generally the adrenaline dump causes most people to reflexively fire several times. She did everything right after the shooting; calling the cops immediately and staying on scene will definitely help her case if they do bring charges against her.

[TxGSrider]

Its probably just that Im in Texas, but I assume that almost everyone is carrying a weapon for self defense, either on their person, in their vehicle, or in their dwelling. I just figure everyone else know this as well and if they still choose to break into my home, or vehicle, or come at me aggressively while I'm stuck in traffic on my bike, they are obviously suicidal and choosing their time and method of demise.

[tkent02]

Its probably just that Im in Texas, but I assume that almost everyone is carrying a weapon for self defense, either on their person, in their vehicle, or in their dwelling. I just figure everyone else know this as well and if they still choose to break into my home, or vehicle, or come at me aggressively while I'm stuck in traffic on my bike, they are obviously suicidal and choosing their time and method of demise.

If everyone did carry, this kind of crap would happen a lot less often.

[KEITH KRAUSE]

If everyone did carry, this kind of crap would happen a lot less often.

Honestly, that's hard to assume. Could happen a lot less, but could happen a lot more. Maybe we revert back to the old west days when everyone carried and the deciding factor was who was the quicker draw?