Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget, motorcyclists.

[Gorminrider]

Quite interesting...as to "what can be done about it", it falls short perhaps. IMO , probably Threat and Size. Hells Angels might hold an advantage here... but beyond expecting Car driver dysfunction, practically, bright clothing and white or bright non-patterned, mono-colour helmet, and from the front at least , a running light array or at least hibeam ON in daylight do seem to help ...

Canadian Broadcasting Corp (CBC)link
Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget, motorcyclists | CBC Radio

root detail link
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0222905

[Noreg]

I think dressing the bike up as a christmas tree is counter productive. People get confused at what you are (most worringly when they think you are a tractor moving slow far away). Thats why I just want one headlamp.

It seems most of the time I can predict that people will run me over, and avoid being where they are going.

[earlfor]

I think dressing the bike up as a christmas tree is counter productive. People get confused at what you are (most worringly when they think you are a tractor moving slow far away). Thats why I just want one headlamp.

It seems most of the time I can predict that people will run me over, and avoid being where they are going.

Agreed. The best way to not get run over is to not be there for the occasion. With a bit of practice, the time and location of those future events are significantly predictable.

[Gorminrider]

I think dressing the bike up as a christmas tree is counter productive. People get confused at what you are (most worringly when they think you are a tractor moving slow far away). Thats why I just want one headlamp.

It seems most of the time I can predict that people will run me over, and avoid being where they are going.

It's not the subject of the article, which goes to some effort to explain a problem but "most of the time"? Good luck with that... You might predict it but even so, predicting doesn't stop them from leaping into your path...Unless maybe you want to come to a full stop on the roadway on the strength of your "prediction". Which would be confusing.

People get confused at what you are

and How do you know they are confused? and If they think about me at all , how is that a bad thing for me?

I would rather try to be "noted" and "remembered" before avoidance is necessary, which is anyways an assumption that you CAN avoid it.... eg: Being crushed under the the large truck beside you is not an avoidance option nor is riding off the cliff face , into a parked car etc etc.
as for "looking like a christmas tree",( without getting a ticket for non-compliance) well, I can't see it from my perspective in my helmet and if it saves me just once, it's worth it. Pain Hurts.

and...I've seen and passed many many tractors on the highways . Not once did I think it was a motorcycle. A house-moving down the road- now, that is confusing when you see it the first time...

[Noreg]

Agreed. The best way to not get run over is to not be there for the occasion. With a bit of practice, the time and location of those future events are significantly predictable.

Since I spend 50 hours a week with unexperienced drivers in a car, having to stop them from killing someone and stop other people from killing us, it is somehwat easier for me. I know what mistakes people make, where they make them, and I also understand why. I can't explain how, but sometimes I just know, that car is going to do this.

Like in the roundabout the other day. The other car is in the inner lane, there is two lanes to exit, I am in the outer lane. I know he will switch lanes on his way out of the roundabout, for no reason at all, so I hold back. I knew it from I saw him. Most people doesn't do that, but that car was going to.

It's not the subject of the article, which goes to some effort to explain a problem but "most of the time"? Good luck with that... You might predict it but even so, predicting doesn't stop them from leaping into your path...Unless maybe you want to come to a full stop on the roadway on the strength of your "prediction". Which would be confusing.

and How do you know they are confused? and If they think about me at all , how is that a bad thing for me?

I would rather try to be "noted" and "remembered" before avoidance is necessary, which is anyways an assumption that you CAN avoid it.... eg: Being crushed under the the large truck beside you is not an avoidance option nor is riding off the cliff face , into a parked car etc etc.
as for "looking like a christmas tree",( without getting a ticket for non-compliance) well, I can't see it from my perspective in my helmet and if it saves me just once, it's worth it. Pain Hurts.

and...I've seen and passed many many tractors on the highways . Not once did I think it was a motorcycle. A house-moving down the road- now, that is confusing when you see it the first time...

I am fairly good at predicting what people do in traffic, its my full time profession. But you are right, I do get it wrong sometimes.

I strongly disagree I have to stop to avoid someone from running into my path. I never meet a car, bus, or bike in an intersection, I adjust my speed to avoid meeting them so they could T-bone me. I can speed up, and go through before them, or slightly slow down to get there after them. Neither requiring stopping, both eliminates the risk of being t-boned.

I will never stay next to a car in a lane, I realize some places you have to, but luckily I don't here. I assume every bus and semi is actively trying to kill me, and make sure I have enough space to avoid it.

Stopping in general is something I don't like in traffic. Thank God we don't use stop signs in Norway, so the general rule is NEVER STOP MOVING. Adjusting the speed means not having to stop.

A person not understanding WHAT you are is far more likely to forget or ignore you. I know this, I see my students mess this up all the time. If they don't understand, they ignore/forget, and that is not good for you.

I am not putting my bike next to a truck if I don't have an escape path.

Christmas tree is like blinking bicycle lights, counter productive. It makes it less safe.

Ofcourse not, you are experienced. Many people in traffic isn't. In my tiny city they have 8-16 new drivers every day. Its terrifying. I wouldnt trust half of them to drive me to the airport. inexperienced and poor drivers needs things to be OBVIOUS. Any ambiguity is dangerous.

[salty_monk]

you are talking roundabouts to an American audience... they don't even know what one is... They are so uncommon here that if you see one you better just assume all bets are off... people are just flat out confused.

Incidentally My dad's a driving instructor / insurance auditor/trainer too.

I once followed the Angels (at a healthy distance) back from Santa Barbara to almost LA... for about 100 miles cars pretty much jumped out of the way to let us lane split....

[Rijko]

I like to be "noted" and "remembered" in traffic, that can only help.
But we have a saying, never place your safety in the hands of others,
if you can help it.

Defensive driving is what i'm about, thanks to my driving instructor 35
years ago. He told me "I am going to teach you a game. You play this every time in traffic."

He told me to always know exactly what vehicles are around me.
Make, color, driver, driving style.
Would ask me "quick what car is behind you", placing his hand on the rear view mirror.

Know at any time if you can swerve to the right or left.
Can you leave the road or is there a ditch or an obstacle.
Can you accelerate or brake very hard.
If you have to figure that out when the situation arises, you're already
a second later than needed. One second can be all the time you need.

Predict what the drivers around you could possibly do, try to foresee their stupidest actions and double that. They will still amaze and surprise you.

Always use driving lights, people notice you better that way.

I have been doing this for decades and i can predict situations most of the time,
so much my passengers sometimes ask me "how did you know ?"

"most of the time" is better than sometimes, it's all about helping yourself.
Maximize your chances any way you can, give yourself extra time, braking distance,
a way out of a situation.

Does that mean i will not get t-boned or get in an accident ?
No, but it increases my odds of avoiding that.

I met my old instructor some years ago, and thanked him for teaching me that game.
He was touched and shook my hand smiling.

[earlfor]

I like to be "noted" and "remembered" in traffic, that can only help.
But we have a saying, never place your safety in the hands of others,
if you can help it.

Defensive driving is what i'm about, thanks to my driving instructor 35
years ago. He told me "I am going to teach you a game. You play this every time in traffic."

He told me to always know exactly what vehicles are around me.
Make, color, driver, driving style.
Would ask me "quick what car is behind you", placing his hand on the rear view mirror.

Know at any time if you can swerve to the right or left.
Can you leave the road or is there a ditch or an obstacle.
Can you accelerate or brake very hard.
If you have to figure that out when the situation arises, you're already
a second later than needed. One second can be all the time you need.

Predict what the drivers around you could possibly do, try to foresee their stupidest actions and double that. They will still amaze and surprise you.

Always use driving lights, people notice you better that way.

I have been doing this for decades and i can predict situations most of the time,
so much my passengers sometimes ask me "how did you know ?"

"most of the time" is better than sometimes, it's all about helping yourself.
Maximize your chances any way you can, give yourself extra time, braking distance,
a way out of a situation.

Does that mean i will not get t-boned or get in an accident ?
No, but it increases my odds of avoiding that.

I met my old instructor some years ago, and thanked him for teaching me that game.
He was touched and shook my hand smiling.

Exactly! It's about possibilities and probabilities through constantly updated attentiveness. Don't be where bad things will be happening. We have the same perspective. I'm much too busy when I ride to divide my focus with music and chit chat on a hands free cell.

[tatu]

I once followed the Angels (at a healthy distance) back from Santa Barbara to almost LA... for about 100 miles cars pretty much jumped out of the way to let us lane split....

I've found the same, when I'm on the blue/white S drivers glance and I think they see a police bike, drivers are much more considerate, not the same at all if I'm on my titchy A100.

[Brendan W]

I can't find the source for this claim. I recall reading about vehicle visibility on Calfornia freeways in the seventies.
The methodology was I don't know what but subjects travelling would be joined by ambulances, fire trucks, winnebagos, red corvettes, police cruisers etc etc and somehow they were trying to time how long it took these vehicles to be noticed.
No surprise the motorcycle was seen last. Big surprise, the police motorcycle was seen earliest.
From personal experience I am convinced that what you wear and your riding posture or body language does matter a lot.

[Gorminrider]

(per Brendan_w's)[QUOTE=....
No surprise the motorcycle was seen last. Big surprise, the police motorcycle was seen earliest.
......[/QUOTE]

just a thought...Maybe not a suprise on the road- Motorcycle Police deal out tickets to motorists ie: "spot the predator" and so they are somewhat "remarkable". amazing how a bear stands out from trees,birds, despite the dark fur.

...there's lots of tips that help, (avoiding the centreline in curves is one of my new favourites these days with over-powered pickups towing trailers "rally-driving" through corners more these days..) but you can't expect to avoid everything forever.

It's happened to me..in a few seconds- no possibility of avoidance to right or left. Pickup with trailer performing a u-turn from the shoulder on a narrow two lane hwy (80kmh limit) without warning, directly in front of me . bank to the right shoulder, dropoff on left. Roadsurface and left shoulder now blocked with PU and trailer. Me, not speeding- actually slowed a little per "car on shoulder possible scenario caution" But I couldn't stop him from doing THAT, so it's just brakes without room to stop.


Tearful driver: "I didn't see you! I shoulder checked too! " So with my bumblebee outfit, white helmet and headlight, I STILL didn't register. This bike didn't have "running lights" Hi beam may not have been on. and it might have helped, but the two bright running lights making a triangle with the headlight, more so, I believe. "What is that?" would have been all I needed to get past.


You can spot dangerous possibilities but sometimes you just have to hope that the other participants don't exercise them. Because like it or not, our safety still relies on other people.