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    Intrusive drones...are they illegal?

    This article is about a case Michigan Supreme Court is dealing with

    As i read it I recalled Peppermint Patti having similar concerns with government balloons 7 or 8 years ago,


    Source:
    Michigan lawsuit over local government's drone use in zoning dispute could jumpstart limits for fast-evolving issue across the country



    Full text:



    What’s the context?

    Michigan lawsuit over local government's drone use in zoning dispute could jumpstart limits for fast-evolving issue across the country

    Michigan Supreme Court hears arguments
    Surveillance of property violated constitution, suit claims
    Decision could help update outmoded laws

    WASHINGTON - A neighbour had already warned Todd Maxon of seeing something unusual hovering over his lakeside Michigan property – but then, suddenly, there it was.

    "I walk out of my house, with my dog and kid, and here's a drone, directly above me," Maxon recalled of the 2018 incident.

    It turns out the drone had been over the five-acre (two-hectare) property at least two other times in previous months, part of what turned out to be an effort by the local Long Lake Township to surveil the Maxons' land over a zoning dispute involving his hobby of fixing up old vehicles.

    But the township did so without getting a warrant first – and Maxon and his legal team say that infringed his constitutional right against unreasonable searches.

    After bouncing between courts in recent years, the Michigan Supreme Court heard oral arguments in October, and a ruling in coming months could set a precedent nationally.

    "It's very intrusive," Maxon, 51, told Context.

    "They could have done it multiple more times – that's the unrest you have, as you just don't know," he said. "I don't know if there's going to be a drone surveilling my kids, or wife, or animals."

    Maxon said the township had also used drones to enforce zoning rules on others in the community.

    Long Lake Township declined to comment on the pending case, but it has previously accused Maxon of operating an unlicensed junk yard in a residential area, an accusation he denies.

    The township has said the drone images were of areas beyond the Maxons' home and hence not protected by the constitution's fourth amendment that guarantees "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects against unreasonable searches" without probable cause.

    The Maxons' attorney rejected that logic.

    "When the government hires somebody to fly a drone all over your property ... in order to gather evidence, that's a search under the fourth amendment. It violates a reasonable expectation of privacy," said Robert Frommer, a senior attorney with the Institute of Justice public interest law firm who is representing the Maxon family.

    "If you want to do this going forward, all you have to do is go to a judge and give a good reason. The one thing we don't want is for officials to decide this themselves – the next thing you know, we'll have drones flying over everyone because they'll be fishing for violations."

    As the use and availability of drone technology expands, Frommer said the case could set a legal precedent.

    "This is a bellwether. This decision will affect the course of not just Michigan, but all of America about how it treats drone surveillance."

    Both the Federal Aviation Administration and the Association for Uncrewed Vehicle Systems International, a trade group, declined to comment on the case, citing the active litigation.​
    "If you scare people enough, they will demand removal of freedom. This is the path to tyranny."
    Elon Musk Jan, 2022

    #2
    I am all for it. Zoning laws are disregarded by so many these days. And it is typically not just the zoning laws that are being violated, add in tax laws.

    Small side gigs are one thing, but when this side gig is your sole source of income and you are running an illegal business out of your home.......I say lets keep those drones in the air!

    Comment


      #3
      I received a letter from my homeowner's insurance carrier (Mercury) stating something to the effect of...

      An aerial flyover of your property has confirmed that your roof has met its life expectancy. Replace your roof before the next renewal cycle, or your policy will be cancelled.

      I don't know if they flew a drone over, but if so, that sort of $hit should be illegal.
      Ed

      To measure is to know.

      Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

      Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

      Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

      KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

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        #4
        The rights property owners " think " they have amazes me . They seem to think they own every thing under { they don't unless they purchase the mineral rights } and over it .... I can take a picture of any property from the street quite legally . And as the property owner doesn't own the air above their land one can do it from there as well ..... Though it would be amusing trying to route airline traffic to avoid privately owned land ..... I would be surprised if some enterprising real estate investor isn't trying to set something up regarding the sale of " air rights " similar to " mineral rights " .......
        Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time
        Originally Posted by Schweisshund I mean, sure, guns were used in some of these mass shootings, but not all of them
        1983 GS 750

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by bccap View Post
          The rights property owners " think " they have amazes me . They seem to think they own every thing under { they don't unless they purchase the mineral rights } and over it .... I can take a picture of any property from the street quite legally . And as the property owner doesn't own the air above their land one can do it from there as well ..... Though it would be amusing trying to route airline traffic to avoid privately owned land ..... I would be surprised if some enterprising real estate investor isn't trying to set something up regarding the sale of " air rights " similar to " mineral rights " .......
          Google thinks homeowners have the right to keep you from seeing someone's home from the street. Assuming you are familar with Google Street view, as a homeowner, you can request that Google blurs your home from their record base.

          Google Maps shows street views of people's homes, but you might not have known that you can easily blur your house for privacy.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Vmass View Post

            Google thinks homeowners have the right to keep you from seeing someone's home from the street. Assuming you are familar with Google Street view, as a homeowner, you can request that Google blurs your home from their record base.

            https://www.athlonoutdoors.com/artic...n-google-maps/
            No they don't ..... You really need to sign up for those remedial reading courses I suggested ... A quote from your article ..... " There is nothing illegal about this since you can’t expect any degree of privacy in your front yard. " .... Google is doing it likely for PR reasons .....
            Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time
            Originally Posted by Schweisshund I mean, sure, guns were used in some of these mass shootings, but not all of them
            1983 GS 750

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by bccap View Post

              No they don't ..... You really need to sign up for those remedial reading courses I suggested ... A quote from your article ..... " There is nothing illegal about this since you can’t expect any degree of privacy in your front yard. " .... Google is doing it likely for PR reasons .....
              Shouldn't your rude, ignorant and unnecessary comments stay in the Vortex?

              Stick to the topic and not your uncontrollable feelings.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Vmass View Post

                Shouldn't your rude, ignorant and unnecessary comments stay in the Vortex?

                Stick to the topic and not your uncontrollable feelings.
                Nothing rude about it and the ignorance was in your post as it was inaccurate ...... In both this post and the one you accused me of you have shown the need of developing your reading skills ...... And as you have accused me of saying something I didn't you are going to hear about it until you provide that proof you said you would ..... Your reading skills are not high ...... And this was another example of it .....
                Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time
                Originally Posted by Schweisshund I mean, sure, guns were used in some of these mass shootings, but not all of them
                1983 GS 750

                Comment


                  #9
                  Around here, Pretty sure we have the right to cut limbs from neighbors tree, at property line, if they're hanging over our property.... Would make me think we own from ground up, but no clue how high up we would own.
                  1983 GS1100E, 1983 CB1100F, 1991 GSX1100G, 1996 Kaw. ZL600 Eliminator, 1999 Bandit 1200S, 2005 Bandit 1200S, 2000 Kaw. ZRX 1100

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Vmass View Post

                    Google thinks homeowners have the right to keep you from seeing someone's home from the street. Assuming you are familar with Google Street view, as a homeowner, you can request that Google blurs your home from their record base.

                    https://www.athlonoutdoors.com/artic...n-google-maps/
                    The fact that Google will do that for you is a business decision, nothing to do with legal rights. If I want to take a photo of your house and post it on the web that's completely legal. No "expectation of privacy" there. What I can't do is stand out there with a telephoto lens and take pictures of the inside of the house, because there you do have an expectation of privacy.
                    '20 Ducati Multistrada 1260S, '93 Ducati 750SS, '01 SV650S, '07 DL650, '01 DR-Z400S, '80 GS1000S, '85 RZ350

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by RichDesmond View Post

                      The fact that Google will do that for you is a business decision, nothing to do with legal rights. If I want to take a photo of your house and post it on the web that's completely legal. No "expectation of privacy" there. What I can't do is stand out there with a telephoto lens and take pictures of the inside of the house, because there you do have an expectation of privacy.
                      My wording could have better. I really wasn't looking at the legal aspect, as much as I was looking at Google giving the homeowner " the ability "( "the right ") to block their home on their paltform, as the most commonly used platform. It was more so a figure of speech.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Peeping Tom laws were adopted to afford people some level of privacy. These drones, flying over someone's house, afford the user to look behind locked fences and walls, where viewing would not normally be possible. It's analogous to opening a locked door so they can look inside. That sort of stuff is BS as far as I'm concerned.
                        Ed

                        To measure is to know.

                        Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

                        Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

                        Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

                        KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

                        Comment


                          #13
                          That's in the Traverse City area, I was our townships zoning administrator in the next township to the west of there for a few years. Crap like this is one of the reasons I left that area, damn near totalitarian rule.

                          Long Lake is a relatively high priced housing area with most of the homes on the lakefront being owned by people from outside the area. This means they pay a much higher property tax rate than those who use them as their primary residence therefore both the schools and township itself are well funded.

                          An unfortunate side effect of that is when the owners retire they move '"Up North" and wiggle their way into local politics since there's little else for them to do to keep them busy. In turn they also like to spend their time watching what the neighbors are up to and raising a stink over stupid crap like how many trash cans are left at the side of the road and how long after they're empty before they're brought back in.

                          It doesn't surprise me one bit to read this, I'm betting someone said "The township has the money for a drone, let's buy one" then later found a use for it. The place just leaves a nasty aftertaste in my mouth and there's other reasons as well. Here's a spoof of a popular travel ad I wrote for that area, view at your own discretion!






                          ​​
                          1980 Yamaha XS1100G (Current bike)
                          1982 GS450txz (former bike)
                          LONG list of previous bikes not listed here.

                          These aren't my words, I just arrange them

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                            #14
                            House about three blocks from me, never knew they had a pool..lol

                            Screenshot_20240211_110418_Gallery.jpg

                            Comment


                              #15
                              All kinds of rules and they come up with few news ones every year it seems, I don't fly at times and places where it's even noticed... just a recreational flyer.

                              Main rule to me don't annoy anything, people, animals...birds will attack...lol

                              Last summer I had a big dark drone with bright lights fly over my house just above tree line at dusk......it was kinda creepy lol

                              If it would've been hovering over my patio looking at me...don't think I'd like it.. lol


                              Last edited by trent; 02-14-2024, 11:55 AM.

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