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1981 Kawasaki GPz550: Restoration

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    After getting the Dyna S statically timed on Saturday 8/13, I hit the starter button and it fired right up. I only let it run for 30 seconds because the fresh engine paint, new rings etc. but the GPz was very responsive which is likely attributed to 1/4 turn throttle. I blipped it a couple of times to 3-4K and shut if off feeling good. Later in the afternoon I started it again but it seemed less responsive to the throttle & noiser. Didn't over analyze it . . . perhaps I should have.

    Next day, I called over Ray (Ghostgs1) to take a video confident it would start but when we started there was a real loud knocking noise coming from the valve train but we couldn't make heads or tails which side the noise was coming from. So my assignment for this weekend was to remove the valve cover, check the valve lash and see if anything hand grenaded inside. Once you remove the valve cover on a GPz/Kz550 you have to remove the cam chain tensioner which in my case requires removing those Mikuni TM27 . . . Ugh

    It didn't take long to find this, while removing the spark plugs I found the insulator on # 1 spark plug had broke off inside the engine while it was running. No mechanical contact with the spark plug. First time I have seen this and the spark plug was brand new NGK.



    Here is a picture of a .022" feeler gage that I slipped in between #1 Intake valve .. . that's a problem because the OEM valve lash is suppose to be .006" to .01" for the intake & .004 to .008" for the exhaust



    I figured I better fish out the remains of the porcelain insulator form cylinder #1. I found some real small threads of porcelain insulator but nothing really visible. I stuck a carb vent line down the cylinder to see if I could suck up the remains but no luck and not very tasty either. After a lot peering down the spark plug holes I could not find the remains of the insulator. What I could see of the valve appeared to be undamaged but no telling if a piece got stuck under the seat which may account for that huge .022" valve lash measurement




    I then went back and checked the valve lash and this time all the valve lash measurement were within spec. I guess my question at this point is can anyone convey their experiences with a broken spark plug porcelain insulator? I know its brittle but I have not idea whether a sound approach would be install a new spark plug and see what happens. Otherwise I am looking at tear down to the cases and replacing all those gaskets again.

    PS: I also found a couple of the Yosh Exhaust stud nuts were loose which may have contributed to the noise
    Last edited by srsupertrap; 08-22-2016, 07:01 AM.
    Steve

    1979 GS1000E (45 Yrs), 1981 GPz550 (11 Yrs)

    Comment


      Steve,

      You do not need to remove the tensioner, just the spring cap. A 17mm socket on a long extension will allow you to reach the cap. Pull off the cap & spring and then pull back on the cross wedge just enough to make sure it's not jammed in tight. Do this just before you reinstall the valve cover, not while working on the top end. You need the tensioner in place while rotating the engine and so forth.

      Regarding that insulator chunk, I'd make a solid effort to try to find it, or at least clean out the cylinder. Take a piece of hose small enough to fit down through the spark plug hole and connect it to your vacuum cleaner and try to suck out the debris in the cylinder. That ceramic is hard so you gotta get it out of the cylinder. If you can't find it that means it's gotta be in your exhaust system.

      Good luck
      Ed

      To measure is to know.

      Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

      Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

      Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

      KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

      Comment


        I found this on the NGK site but no guidance about what damage occurs

        The combustion temperature can rise to an abnormally high level so that heat transfer from the interior of the plug is unable to keep pace, leading to trouble such as cracking of the insulation and melting of the electrodes.


        1) Breaking of the insulation Type 1 (See Photo 1)
        • When selecting a plug, make sure that the standard plug will not go outside the optimum temperature range while engine combustion is normal (refer to the "Plug Temperature and its Effects" chart below). If for any reason (water leakage, oil leakage, etc.) the engine starts knocking or detonation occurs, the temperature of the combustion gas will rise sharply and the plug, piston and valves will overheat. Overheating of the plug causes the center electrode to expand, and this can break the insulation.
        Photo 1: Breaking of the insulation
        2) Breaking of the insulation Type 2 (See Photo 2)
        • This is the situation where deposits (products of combustion of oil, etc.) penetrate into the gap between the center electrode and insulation at the firing end, expanding the center electrode and causing the insulation to break.
        • Normally, deposits do not penetrate into this gap. If the engine overheats, the engine's cylinder head may distort. This means that cooling of the combustion chamber will fail which in turn means that knocking will occur more easily. Repeated knocking leads to abnormal pressure and vibration in the combustion chamber. This abnormal pressure and vibration causes the deposits that have accumulated in the combustion chamber to scatter as fine particles and enter gaps in the plug.

        Photo 2: Entry of deposits
        Last edited by srsupertrap; 08-22-2016, 02:57 PM.
        Steve

        1979 GS1000E (45 Yrs), 1981 GPz550 (11 Yrs)

        Comment


          Steve,

          You only ran the engine for a few mins while in your garage. No way a fault in your engine caused that plug to break.
          Ed

          To measure is to know.

          Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

          Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

          Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

          KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

          Comment


            Wow! I have never seen that before. I second Ed's vacuum cleaner suggestion, ceramic in the ring area could be very damaging. Sorry to hear that. Ray
            "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded" -Yogi Berra
            GS Valve Shim Club http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=122394
            1978 GS1000EC Back home with DJ
            1979 GS1000SN The new hope
            1986 VFR700F2 Recycled

            Comment


              All bad news when I did a compression check on Friday, my setup



              #1 cylinder is where the spark plug insulator failed


              Rest were like this . . . 5300Ft




              NGK forced my hand had to have a look inside, it gets worse





              Looks like insulator residue, valves seemed to be straight but that needs to be verified





              Not a catastrophic set of photos but its loosing 30+ psi somewhere.



              Although I didn't buy the plugs, I contacted NGK and they sent me a claim form for the damage. They want the spark plug for a failure analysis investigation ( I am sure they will find a way to deflect the claim ). Regardless, I will submit a claim for a cylinder head, gaskets and piston but the Wiseco 615 piston in the photo are the XC type which were discontinued long time ago so there is no hope of finding one of those. I will probably have to replace all the wiseco pistons with new or find a new cylinder and run stock Kawi pistons.

              Either way its a total mess & money pit too.
              Steve

              1979 GS1000E (45 Yrs), 1981 GPz550 (11 Yrs)

              Comment


                Wow! Bummer!

                Steve, some dings in the top of the piston won't hurt anything. Same goes for the head. Can't you just replace the valves that are damaged and kiss the seat with a cutter as necessary?
                Ed

                To measure is to know.

                Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

                Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

                Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

                KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

                Comment


                  If NGK denies anything but full compensation for the failure of their product and the resulting consequence I'd be very surprised. Itemize everything, they have a budget for this kind of thing.

                  On a side note, GPZ550 was the first bike I ever rode.

                  That seat is done for, unless going oversized.

                  Comment


                    Looks like 1 valve is junked for sure.
                    MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                    1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                    NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                    I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                    Comment


                      Machine the valve and seat, then measure. If it is within specs you are good to go. Piston damage looks negligible.

                      Damage on head can be blended easily.

                      Pictures are high quality, but diagnosing the parts as junk or serviceable cannot be done from them. Measure after they are cleaned up and then go from there.

                      Personally I would step back, throw a cover ver the bike and parts and cool off for a few days, your emotions will feel better for it. Then get the machining done and go from there. Sometimes we get too caught up in things and a little break goes a long way, it works for me anyways.

                      Cheers brother and persevere.
                      Last edited by Fjbj40; 08-28-2016, 03:16 PM.
                      1978 Gs1085 compliments of Popy Yosh, Bandit 1200 wheels and front end, VM33 Smoothbores, Yosh exhaust, braced frame, ported polished head :cool:
                      1983 Gs1100ESD, rebuild finished! Body paintwork happening winter 2017:D

                      I would rather trust my bike to a technician that reads the service manual than some backyardigan that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix things.

                      Comment


                        Well, that stinks! Looks repairable for sure, but it sure isn't what you had in mind. How does the cylinder wall look? Hope it's still good. Ray
                        "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded" -Yogi Berra
                        GS Valve Shim Club http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=122394
                        1978 GS1000EC Back home with DJ
                        1979 GS1000SN The new hope
                        1986 VFR700F2 Recycled

                        Comment


                          I shipped my NGK claim off today. I included several 8×10 color glossy photographs, just like Arlo's Guthrie's Alice's Resturant song along with the Kleeme Performance bill for the cylinder head work done in 2014. That's outa of my hands and I now I wait.

                          Now I need a machinist who is interested in helping to look at the cylinder head, valves etc. Then pass judgement ( rework or boat anchor ). Although I agree it does not look terrible, I am worried about the following. Although the GPz valve shims are smaller in diameter than the GS's, the range of sizes are the same 2.00 to 2.95mm. The 2014 valve job reduced the shim size down to 2.25mm on the intake which leaves little valve seat material to remove. I am no machinist but there is not much material left.

                          I also believe something bent. When Ray was in my garage a couple of weekends ago, the top engine sounded like something was rattling around loose in there. When disassembled I found no big pieces of insulator left inside which would account for the noise. Could the connecting rod bend?

                          I contacted Kleeme Performance but no reply. Open to suggestions
                          Steve

                          1979 GS1000E (45 Yrs), 1981 GPz550 (11 Yrs)

                          Comment


                            Steve, your machinist guy should have kissed the valve stems to shorten the valves. That moves the shims back into the normal range. If you think the valves are bent put them in a V-block and give them a spin. You can try chucking them up in your drill motor too.
                            Ed

                            To measure is to know.

                            Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

                            Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

                            Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

                            KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

                            Comment


                              Steve, I bet all the noise came from that piece of ceramic. It's likely that the crank and rod are fine, just my opinion. If the piston and head can be cleaned up and the cylinder wall is ok, I expect the valve work to be minimal. Should be running in no time. Ray
                              "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded" -Yogi Berra
                              GS Valve Shim Club http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=122394
                              1978 GS1000EC Back home with DJ
                              1979 GS1000SN The new hope
                              1986 VFR700F2 Recycled

                              Comment


                                Any update Steve? Have you done a full damage assessment yet?
                                Ed

                                To measure is to know.

                                Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

                                Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

                                Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

                                KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

                                Comment

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