Failure to shift....deadspace on shifter

[Guest]

Problem:

On ride home today I ran into an issue where I was unable to drop to any gears under 3rd. I managed to limp home by keeping momentum in traffic by using the shoulder and taking most direct traffic light minimum to my place. ..on the down-shift when I was unable to get past 3rd the shifter would rock up and down but not feel like it was biting on anything....

In the parking lot I was able to center stand the bike and rock the wheel and shift through all the gears fine. Clutch cable re-adjusted for the 1-2mm free play and it seems to be working fine.... problem seems to only occur after prolonged highway speeds 45-60. Had simular thing happen a week ago when I was jammed in 1st and 2nd briefly on a ride home on the super slab...and I did an overdue oil change and that seemed to have cure that.... now I have this and I am unsure if my diagnosis is accurate. I have limited time off leading up to my time off for the trip to reno so major work might affect my decision to attend if I cannot firmly find the cause of this. ...makes me wish I was in California so I would be closer to the rest of you guys. Easier to bribe some with beer and food to help work on things that I am unsure about. As some of you guys can probably rebuild one of these from muscle memory....


Does this sound like a clutch adjustment issue or is my trannie trying to tell me it is borked?

Side note....

Battery on bike went flat on me when I was testing the battery ( showed 11v when starter refused to crank anymore however revs did not produce a kick in voltage ) battery is about 3 years old and I did not tender it over the winter like I should have. Checked fuses with a light on both ends all good....Going to do stator pages checklist on it if I get it to hold a charge else I will just buy a new battery and test again. Stock R/R and Stator replaced with Electro sport stator and R/R 3 seasons ago and wiring does not look burned or anything with the new connections I put on a few weeks ago. Hope it is nothing and I am just being paranoid

[spchips]

Behind the clutch basket there is a little indexing mechanism that gets you from one gear to the next. My guess would be this is acting up a little. Cleaner shifts will probably help, and fresh oil always smooths out shifting.

You could investigate with little difficulty. Maybe 1-2 Hours and a fresh clutch cover gasket.

[Kcwiro]

I have looked through my book and I take it you are referring to that rake like thing on the back of the shifter shaft. Does not sound like a 1-2 hour job as whole clutch would have to be removed to be able to see those pieces that looks like several weekends of work at the pace I move. Lacking a workspace does not help me at the moment either. HOA has been ok with oil changes I have done... but they see me taking the clutch off I am going to get ripped on for sure....condo life sucks sometimes as I have no garage....

If I have to dive into it that deep I would have to do a full clutch inspection. My clutch plates have not been done since I bought the bike and have been saving that job until it was absolutely necessary. Of course this would have to happen at the worst time for me in finance terms as I have none to spare this month *crap*

My battery is still not green from being on the tender for the last 12 hours either. Voltages are at 14.4 but the light has not gone green yet..... once it does I am going to go out on a ride and see if the other adjustments I did fixed the issue or not. I am hoping it made a dramatic recovery as what I have been told here is telling me I am SOL for reno. As I cannot buy parts until at least the 22nd 12 days to get them minimum and I am working a 7 day week prior to reno... so I could not get the job done in time least not fast enough to be sure I got it fixed correctly.... for that sake I am hoping you are wrong....

Parts list I looked at as I would want to do the bearings and other things while I am there... 8 driven plates and 8 drive plates yeah $231 bucks..... on top of the tires I have yet to buy

[rustybronco]

If you can get it to shift when the bike is off and on center stand, most likely it's because the clutch is not releasing. either because of clutch plate warpage, a maladjusted clutch, or rack misalignment

to inspect it you'll need basic hand tools, a flat piece of glass to place the steels on so you are able to measure them for warpage with feeler gauges, calipers or micrometers to measure the plate thickness, a torque wench or a good hand with a 1/4" ratchet and socket, a sheet of the proper thickness gasket material and a drain pan.

I have some spare steels and frictions which "should" be good of which I could post to you if needed.

Even at a snails pace you should have it done in under 3 hours including making the gasket. now go find a place to work on it...

[Kcwiro]

I am still waiting on the battery to finish charging so I can go on a quick ride and see if the clutch adjustment yesterday fixed it...if it did not then I am off to getting into the clutch hub.

...Doing clutch plates in my book looks like cake to me...I have been up most of the night reading up on this clutch stuff so my confidence is up a few points if it is just the clutch plates being warped.

Question:

After I take the pressure plate off will I be able to slip the plates out easily my clymer all it tells me is after removing the pressure plate and springs no further disassembly required which tells me they should slide out on their own. Is that correct? ... Looks like I will be raiding the parents place to use what little garage space they have if bike has to sit it best be there I suppose.

[rustybronco]

Question:

After I take the pressure plate off will I be able to slip the plates out easily my clymer all it tells me is after removing the pressure plate and springs no further disassembly required which tells me they should slide out on their own. Is that correct? ...

Correct...

[Charlie G]

Scott,

I feel your pain. I've got two bikes, and when I get one working the other has something that goes wack-O. I'm waiting on a stator for the 650. My rally days are in doubt. Good luck.

Charlie G

[chef1366]

If you can get it to shift when the bike is off and on center stand, most likely it's because the clutch is not releasing. either because of clutch plate warpage, a maladjusted clutch, or rack misalignment

to inspect it you'll need basic hand tools, a flat piece of glass to place the steels on so you are able to measure them for warpage with feeler gauges, calipers or micrometers to measure the plate thickness, a torque wench or a good hand with a 1/4" ratchet and socket, a sheet of the proper thickness gasket material and a drain pan.

I have some spare steels and frictions which "should" be good of which I could post to you if needed.

Even at a snails pace you should have it done in under 3 hours including making the gasket. now go find a place to work on it...

Bingo
I had this happen when I had a really notched up clutch basket and fibers would get bound.

[Kcwiro]

Update

Battery completed its charge and I went out for spin around the neighborhood staying close to home. the foot shifter/gear selector started going loose almost immediately. I managed to keep everything moving and kept riding around eventually moving up to a hard freeway to a fast set of twisties foot shifter / gear selector has not made a peep after that. Went out for a longer ride around WA where the bike was in its prime cruising speed of 'berrying the needle and clutch started slipping on the downshift when I went for a highspeed pass but the foot selector did not give me the deadspot I was feeling between gears. I am happy about the gear selector appearing to work again but I know the clutch is not happy as the slippage continued throughout the ride.

The part about the foot shifter feeling loose when it fails to catch a gear I was thinking is the 'fork/spline' on the end of the shifter shaft shifting just enough out of place to get mis aligned with the other fork that is behind the clutch flywheel. Debris or something in the oil getting stuck in there or the forks having metal fatigue over the years. 'the indexing mechanism that spchips' mentioned above

I am going in to inspect the clutch plates when I finish work this week. And I will take a peek behind the clutch hub at the back of the shifter shaft while I am in there to see if I cannot get a good look at the gear teeth behind the clutch flywheel and see what that component looks like. Honestly I hope I am wrong and you guys are right about it just being warped disks but I will soon know for sure.

Moving the bike to parents garage so I can drive my tools over and have a spot to store the bike when this is going on and waiting on any parts I find I need.

[rustybronco]

<snip> but I know the clutch is not happy as the slippage continued throughout the ride.

Your going to need new clutch springs you might as well order a new gasket when you order them.

what engine oil are you now using and what did it have in it before?

[Kcwiro]

Oil in use

Your going to need new clutch springs you might as well order a new gasket when you order them.

what engine oil are you now using and what did it have in it before?

I have clutch springs chef gave me already they are good. I was going to cut my own gasket as I have more than enough material for it. new clutch cable in hand already doing it same time I service clutch. Clutch was slipping before when I loaded luggage and ripped on it at times like now. Yesterday as firs time in awhile...so if you are thinking wrong oil just saying =)

I was just using regular shell / cheveron 10-40w whatever I picked up from the gas station I was mindful of watching out for friction additives no troubles. I using Motul 3000 10-40 rated for wet clutch use. Funny how when you do new filter the oil level is off for a short period as the filter absorbs oil. It went down to normal yesterday after the ride.

[Kcwiro]

Request: Picture

Could someone show me a picture of the clutch arm on their GS. I was interested to know if the arm is supposed to be straight parallel with the clutch cover or 90* to the bracket holding the second adjustment nut. When I in there this weekend want to make sure I have the right initial alignment.

[Kcwiro]

Yeah these guys are toasted....outline of where the fibers should be are amost flat with the disks...

replacement fibers should be on the way in the next day or two. Thanks for the help... now to get new tires mounted and clutch re-assembled and I'll be good to go.

See you all in Reno

[Kcwiro]

Clutch back in one piece

Got the clutch back together yesterday operation appears to be fine with the new springs and replacement fibers. Steels were scuffed up a touch before reassembly, fibers had oil applied by finger to them so should be all good there. Clutch cable still needs to be swapped out with my new one but I'll get to that later this week.

Still have a stator cover that is choosing to be annoying on sealing. Going to work on that on my next day off so looks like I will not be doing a shakedown ride just yet.

Thanks for the help again guys, see you in Reno!

[rcoville]

I'm working on a similar problem at present. My post is on this forum, so you can see the one reply I got, and the background on what the dealer has done so far.

I can tell you he pulled my clutch out to get in and replace all the internals on the gear selector (all WITHOUT having to split the case, that is) and he told me when I picked up the bike the clutch was in good shape (I had asked him to let me know if he thought it needed work).

So in my case at least, the clutch does not seem to be the problem.

The Haynes manual lists several possible problems. I have attached a photocopy of the trouble-shooting section that applies to your problem.

I'm going to call another old hand at these bikes this week, and if I learn anything new that may help, I'll post it back to you.

Good luck