Camshaft Top End Rattle

[Suzuki_Don]

I've watched my friend time a (single) cam for hours, to get it perfect. I know it ain't easy.
I'm just going to get them close. 125cc's, a much better head, and slightly better cam timing, should be enough for me

That's why in the documentation I sent you you will see peculiar figures like 106.625 degrees. That was close enough to 107 for me. It can drive you nuts if you are trying to get it perfect, a bit this way then a bit that way and then the cam slips a bit and you have to start over again. And you have to rotate the engine after each adjustment to do the maths to see if you are there yet. Yes for me too, close enough is good enough. Trying to get 1/2 a degree on a camshaft sprocket if not an easy task.

One of the web sites I have looked at give the 650 hp rating at 73 as compared to the 49 hp for the 550. That equates to 49% increase. A lot of this comes from the better designed head. You are right it's enough for us. I put 100 miles on my bike before I decided to pull it down again and I can testify to the increase in performance (seat of the pants), left my mates bonnie for dead.

At 4,500 it was pulling 65 mph, that was with the standard 50 tooth rear sprocket and a 16 tooth front (up one tooth from stock). It puts the gearing halfway between the stock 550 and 650 gearing. It could easily go up more as the bike pulled away easily in 2nd gear with no probs. Never used 1st gear while riding it except for pulling away from the lights. Remembering we have six gears not five.

keep us (me) updated on your progress, very interested.

[Suzuki_Don]

Cams Finished -- Happy with Result

Well I got the cams finished tonight. They are both degreed in at 105 and 107 respectively for the intake and exhaust. I managed to get them spot on this time with a new technique I discovered to prevent the camshaft from moving while I rotated the sprocket via the chain and crankshaft 19mm end nut.




When I got them both spot on then I removed the bolts in turn and used Loctite to keep them in place at specified torque. This is the finished product.




Final numbers were as follows doing the timing the way BadBilly told me too. Worked like a gem. See illustration below.




Now I can move on to putting other bits back on the motor, clutch, oil pump, generator, etc. while I wait for the air jets to arrive before I can put the carbs on.

Thanks everyone for your help so far.

[Suzuki_Don]

Pilot Air Jets Have Arrived

Well the pilot air jets have arrived. Have fitted them to the carbs so they can go back on now. Check out the difference in jet sizes, no wonder my motor was running so rich, not getting near enough air.




Size #150 on the left and #175 on the right.


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[gearhead13]

The last couple times I timed my cams, I tried something new, I set the degree wheel to the correct opening time that I wanted, then loosened the cam bolts and turned the cam until the degree wheel showed .050"
Worked decent and was much less frustrating than trial and error.

[Suzuki_Don]

The last couple times I timed my cams, I tried something new, I set the degree wheel to the correct opening time that I wanted, then loosened the cam bolts and turned the cam until the degree wheel showed .050"
Worked decent and was much less frustrating than trial and error.

Sounds good Gearhead. It took me a while to work out what you meant, then I realised you meant dial gauge and not degree wheel. It would take the guess work out of it. That being said I did get my cams completed in a couple of nights work.

I did the valve clearances tonight. Another task out of the way. Gradually getting there.

[AF_Bill]

Don, thank you for this very detailed thread. Since my 850 is making the same noise, I've been reading this everyday.
You had mentioned something about the carbs being out of sync. I took my bike to a mechanic friend and he said that it sounds like the carbs need to be rebuild and re-sync. This might fix the problem, then again it might not.

[Suzuki_Don]

Don, thank you for this very detailed thread. Since my 850 is making the same noise, I've been reading this everyday.
You had mentioned something about the carbs being out of sync. I took my bike to a mechanic friend and he said that it sounds like the carbs need to be rebuild and re-sync. This might fix the problem, then again it might not.

Bill, glad my thread is of use to others. Sometimes I think I am posting too many pics and sometimes I think this thread is developing from a query about a noise in my motor to a thread on an engine rebuild project. But as long as I receive encouragement from people like you I will keep going.

I should be able to start the motor in a week or two I guess. I will see what happens then, hopefully the noise will have gone away, if not then I will do a full vacuum synch on the carbs and if that has no effect then I will muck around with the points plate; advancing a bit, retarding a bit. And see what happens.

Thanks Bill for your suggestion.

[Guest]

Bill, glad my thread is of use to others. Sometimes I think I am posting too many pics and sometimes I think this thread is developing from a query about a noise in my motor to a thread on an engine rebuild project.

Not at all Don. I've been following this one too - feel your pain - even though I haven't posted. Looking forward to you getting it back on the road. Love all the pics.

[Suzuki_Don]

Question on Springs in Clutch Hub Driven Gear

In the back of my clutch hub I have six springs, 3 are heavy duty and the other 3 are light duty (thinner wire). How much play or movement should there be allowable in these springs. I can rotate 2 of the large springs back and forth a small amount (about 1/16th") and there is slight end play on the springs, in other words they can be pushed back and forth a small amount along there length. Also two of the smaller springs have the same symptoms.

How much play, if any, should there be in these springs. And could they be causing the noise in my motor at idle. If so what is the remedy?

This part is no longer available new from Suzuki and I imagine if it was it would be horrifically expensive. My clutch hub has a straight cut gear on it.
If this is a problem how do you get the springs out and where do you obtain new springs to go back in before it is welded up again. What about new rivets, are the old rivets long enough to reweld.

I will post a video tonight of the amount of play in the springs.

Thanks again for any help.


http://s226.photobucket.com/albums/d...t=P1000976.mp4


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[tkent02]

Here ya go. Those springs shouldn't have any play.
This should work well enough to see if the springs are causing your noise.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/quick_clutch_rattle_repair_by_tkent02.pdf

[Nessism]

Here is another solution... http://www.theflyingbanana.com/clutchhub.htm

The amount of looseness in that clutch hub is typical, and shouldn't make as much noise as this bike was experiencing. That said, it would be a good idea to eliminate that extra play.

[Suzuki_Don]

Here ya go. Those springs shouldn't have any play.
This should work well enough to see if the springs are causing your noise.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...by_tkent02.pdf

Thanks Tom, I had seen this somewhere in the far distant past, but had forgotten where to find it. Thanks for the link. I might do this quick and easy mod and see how it goes and if the noise comes back then it's not a biggie to pull the clutch again. Thanks.

[Suzuki_Don]

Here is another solution... http://www.theflyingbanana.com/clutchhub.htm

The amount of looseness in that clutch hub is typical, and shouldn't make as much noise as this bike was experiencing. That said, it would be a good idea to eliminate that extra play.

Thanks Ed, you've come through for me again. I will try Tom's quick remedy first and then do the other mod later on of inserting the washers against the end of the springs, but will need to separate the hub halves to do it. A job for another day.

[Suzuki_Don]

Not Long Now -- Nearly Ready to Start

Almost done -- Should be able to start her on the weekend.

Just one more task to go. Fit the headers and silencer.








Keeping fingers crossed for a silent motor.

Since last time I posted I have fitted the generator cover, connected the wiring up, starter motor, clutch, carbs, coils, etc. Filled motor with oil, and spun it with car battery so oil light goes off. Removed valve cover because I forgot to oil the shims and valve gear and put moly on the cam lobes. So just headers to go and then hit the starter.


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[Nessism]

What's going on with your engine Don? Had a chance to fire that bad boy up yet?