compression diminishes to nothing from 1 to 4

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  • Homie

    #106
    Like some others believe, it seems more and more likely that something is askew with the valve timing. Don't know what it is, but the symptoms are pointing in that direction.

    Happens more often than you think, even to experienced engine builders. I had been building engines for years and I once somehow managed to misaligned the cam timing marks on a big-block 440 mopar. The cam timing was so retarded that it wouldn't rpm past 4,000 rpm's on a motor that had previously been red-lining at 6,500 rpm! It was a lot harder to correct that problem in a auto engine than it is to fix a like problem on a bike engine. Live and learn.

    Before you take anything apart, carefully analyze what you currently have. Me, I would take the cam cover off and carefully observe the action of the #1 cylinder valves as I rotate the engine 720 degrees (two complete revolutions for a four stroke) from #1 firing TDC mark back thru to #1 firing TDC mark. At firing TDC both your valve buckets should be loose. As you rotate the engine thru about 180 degrees the exhaust valve should start to open. As you approach 360 degrees the exhaust valve should close and the intake open. As you approach 540 degrees (1 1/2 revolutions) the intake should close. As you get to 720 degrees both the valve buckets should be loose again.

    If you have access to a Leak Down Tester and a source of compressed air I would do a Leak Down Check before I took the engine apart again. It will show you exactly where you are losing your compression.

    Most good machine or engine building shops should have a Leak Down Tester. Or, if you know anybody in General Aviation (GA), a pilot or a mechanic with a light airplane, they will have a Leak Down Tester as it is the ONLY way that you test compression in a piston engine airplane.

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    • Paul's Zuki

      #107
      Originally posted by gearhead13
      So, do you have oversized pistons and bored out cylinders too? I hope so.
      No. the two times I bought rings for this bike they came 1.00mm oversize so I had to file them down a bit.

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      • tkent02
        Forum LongTimer
        Past Site Supporter
        • Jan 2006
        • 35571
        • Near South Park

        #108
        1mm oversized rings with standard pistons and bores?
        http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...tatesMap-1.jpg

        Life is too short to ride an L.

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        • Paul's Zuki

          #109
          yeah, every set of piston rings I have ever seen for my bike either specify 1.00 mm or .50 mm oversize. am I getting something I'm not supposed to?

          Comment

          • Nessism
            Forum LongTimer
            GSResource Superstar
            Past Site Supporter
            Super Site Supporter
            • Mar 2006
            • 35791
            • Torrance, CA

            #110
            Yes, you need standard rings. Not oversizes.

            Paul,

            I'd like to see you succeed. Feel free to call me if you have questions, it might be easier to transfer info that way.

            Ed
            310-809-6038
            Ed

            To measure is to know.

            Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

            Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

            Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

            KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

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            • mike_of_bbg

              #111
              Yeah. You're supposed to be getting stock rings with no oversize, or bore your cylinders and get new pistons too to match the oversize rings.

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              • niclpnut
                Forum Sage
                Past Site Supporter
                • Sep 2010
                • 1274
                • Peculiar, MO

                #112
                yup oversized rings are too large to use with standard bore and pistons. That's why your having to file them down and why they won't stay on the piston ring grooves when loose.

                When you order the rings make sure you are ordering the (STD) size and not the (OS) oversize rings.

                12140-47031 PISTON RING SET (STD) | B,C&EC

                Not:

                12140-47031-050 PISTON RING SET (OS:0.5) | B,N&EC; OS:0.5
                12140-47031-100 PISTON RING SET (OS:1.0) | B,N&EC; OS:1.0
                Last edited by niclpnut; 08-08-2011, 06:31 PM.
                83 GS1100ES rebuild:

                http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170032

                Budget GSXR Conversion:

                http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=200563

                New to me bike: 2008 B-KING

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                • Paul's Zuki

                  #113
                  where do you guys get our piston rings from? I've bought mine of ebay and that's probably were I went wrong.

                  Comment

                  • gearhead13

                    #114
                    You stuff oversize rings in a standard bore and the rings are forced into an oval shape. Oversize rings in a standard bore will not give you any compression, thats your problem. Make sure you get proper standard size rings for your engine, you probably wont have to file the end gaps down.

                    Comment

                    • mike_of_bbg

                      #115
                      They're still available OEM. Looks like G&S Suzuki has 'em for $25/set + S/H.

                      Comment

                      • Guest

                        #116
                        Sorry you have to tear down and purchase new rings.
                        At least you're on the right path now.

                        Comment

                        • Paul's Zuki

                          #117
                          Originally posted by chef1366
                          Sorry you have to tear down and purchase new rings.
                          At least you're on the right path now.
                          yeah for real, with the help of you guys though. see below pics for timing, although I know i need to order new rings.

                          Top Dead Center


                          Top Dead Center: cylinder 1 & 4




                          Hopefully you can see the markings on the cams. Still Top Dead Center

                          Exhaust Cam








                          Intake Cam


                          Overall view:




                          Here is the view of the exhaust cam dead center on the cam to see how the TDC lines with the markings on the cam to cylinder head.

                          Comment

                          • Paul's Zuki

                            #118
                            Originally posted by Paul's Zuki
                            where do you guys get our piston rings from? I've bought mine of ebay and that's probably were I went wrong.

                            anyone bought from powersportsplus.com? I put in the part number that Niclpnut gave me into google and it pulled up their site first for $30.00

                            Comment

                            • mike_of_bbg

                              #119
                              I think your timing is on OK. Like I said, gssuzuki.com has the OEM rings for $25 per set +S/H, or about $26 each at DeLand Suzuki: both pretty good discount OEM sources.

                              Comment

                              • tkent02
                                Forum LongTimer
                                Past Site Supporter
                                • Jan 2006
                                • 35571
                                • Near South Park

                                #120
                                The spacing between the cams looks correct, but isn't the #1 on the exhaust cam one tooth up from the head's top surface? The arrow should be flush?
                                http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...tatesMap-1.jpg

                                Life is too short to ride an L.

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