Stainless Valve Cover Bolts and a Real Gasket...hmmmm

[Guest]

Can I borrow yours?

Well, he did specify 'good'.*

As a corollary are you saying that you cannot use anti-seize on SS bolts and then only torque them to 7-8 inch pounds? I can't see why they would break if you put anti-seize on them, that is the whole point of anti-seize. Not arguing, just attempting to understand what seems to be conflicting information.

Two separate issues seem to be at play here...one is galvanic corrosion from interfacing two dissimilar metals (SS & alu), and the other is securing the bolts (either stock, or SS), given the low torque requirements. Given the lubricating qualities of anti-seize, it might exacerbate the problem of the tendency of bolts to loosen. IMHO, the best overall solution for the OP would be to use stock bolts with the Real Gasket. FWIW, I have been using the (same) Real Gasket (with stock bolts & no thread sealer) for over 5 years now, without issues & lost bolts, etc. I also have a fancy Snap-On torque wrench especially for this application, but finger-tight + 1/2 turn will also do the job, I've found.

[JEEPRUSTY]

Oh and a quick drive by of the Loctite site indicates that yes indeed it is a means of prevent corrosion between dis-similar fasteners.

YAY!

[koolaid_kid]

Rays point was about galvanic corrosion. When you use two different metals and apply pressure, heat, salt and/or moisture the two metals will corrode and basically fuse together. This is why when you look at a water heater there will be dielectric fittings where the copper pipe meets up with the galvanized steel.

Anti-seize prevents this corrosion from occurring.

Correct. However, I must caution, this happens over time/exposure to elements/temp changes. I suggest, also, that the copper to steel connection is a bit different than stainless steel to aluminum. I have done quite a few water heater/water softener installs, and I have never seen the issues with ss and aluminum that I have seen with copper and steel. Stainless is far more inert than copper or steel. Apples to oranges, perhaps?

[koolaid_kid]

Well, he did specify 'good'.*



Two separate issues seem to be at play here...one is galvanic corrosion from interfacing two dissimilar metals (SS & alu), and the other is securing the bolts (either stock, or SS), given the low torque requirements. Given the lubricating qualities of anti-seize, it might exacerbate the problem of the tendency of bolts to loosen. IMHO, the best overall solution for the OP would be to use stock bolts with the Real Gasket. FWIW, I have been using the (same) Real Gasket (with stock bolts & no thread sealer) for over 5 years now, without issues & lost bolts, etc. I also have a fancy Snap-On torque wrench especially for this application, but finger-tight + 1/2 turn will also do the job, I've found.

Let's get one thing out of the way here; thread sealer seals threads. Not required for this install.
So, there are two real issues here. One, the OP wants to use his fancy ss bolts. Two, he wants to use a Real Gasket. They do not have to be conflicting issues.
First, anti-seize is designed to make the galvanic corrosion a non-issue. However, the RG bolts can only be torqued down to a very small setting. So the combination of anti-seize and a RG seem to be conflicting requirements. Perhaps this is the reason for RR's response, but I cannot and will not speak for him.
Second, galvanic corrosion occurs over time. How often do you adjust your valves? Mine get done once a season at the very least, so I remove the bolts periodically.
Third, what type of conditions is your bike subjected to? Do you leave it under a waterspout all its life?
Lastly, the main method to prevent galvanic corrosion is to prevent direct contact between two dissimilar metals. Does not a thread lock do that as well? Mine does, not sure about yours.
Inquiring minds would like to know.

[TheCafeKid]

I was at least checking the clearances three to four times a year (usually only had to adjust anything once or twice a season) and I will admit to never using anti seize on any of my SS bolts. Not saying its un-necessary, just that I didn't do it.
And, ironically,the only time ive had a cover bolt snap was a stock bolt in the clutch cover of my 1100E, when I removed it to replace it with SS bolts.

Which brings up the question...most of the stock bolts were steel were they not? So the logic that SS bolts require anti-seize and stock ones don't doesn't really seem to make any sense....

[JEEPRUSTY]

My case bolts are plated in bright chrome.
They are slick as can be and I have never seen an instance of corrosion or some close to breaking one.

[Guest]

@ Koolaid...
Wow....I seem to have rubbed you the wrong way, or you're having a bad night.
Where to start.... I wrote thread sealer instead of thread lock, which added to the confusion, my bad. Yes, you are correct in that he could use the thread lock with the SS bolts...he has already suggested that himself, in an earlier post. As I stated, it was *my* humble opinion that the best overall solution would be to use the stock bolts & Real Gasket ( simply to circumvent the need of Loctite / antiseize etc.) Yours might, and obviously does, differ.
I agree with your assertion that corrosion would be minimal due to the fact that the valve cover gets taken off more than say, an exhaust system (fastened with ss bolts).

[rapidray]

You need a 1/4" torque wrench to get into inch pounds. You can borrow mine if you bring the bike here.

The Snap On inch pound torque wrench I have is 3/8 drive. My concern with usung stainless bolts with a real gasket is that the torque is so low that I don't think the bolts will stay tight with Antiseize on them. I don't like real gaskets & am a fan of paper or factory rubber valve cover gaskets on the heads that used rubber. Just my take on it & it is YOUR bike to do what you want with. We are all always looking for a better way to do things & I am ALWAYS glad to hear about something new that works. Ray.

[TheCafeKid]

I've never used a real gasket myself but I will say I am with Ray on plain ol simple paper gaskets. Sometimes, if you coat the gasket lightly with some grease to keep it from baking to the mating surface, you can get a second use out of it when checking your clearances. Hopefully it will all stay on either the head or the cover and not end up half and half.

For some reason, my ex 1100ES would always have the gasket cracked around the cam chain tunnel so I'd have to change it every time. I tried to find the cause, burrs or sharp edges to the cover or what have you but could never figure out why it did it. They weren't overly expensive either so I wasn't heart broken about it but it did bug me.

The only real benefit to me in using a real gasket would have been not having to spend more time scraping old gasket off than it took me to do the actual adjustment.
But AFAIK you can't use a RG with the 16v motors anyway because of the location of the tach drive.

[koolaid_kid]

Mysuzyq, not at all. Unless you are my ex-wife you do not have the ability to rub me the wrong way. And I agree that best solution for a Real Gasket is the stock bolts. But he was asking about the fancy ss bolts with a RG, so I was just attempting to work things out; I tend to think things out better by writing things out. I was not intending to argue, I just took your post at face value. The thread sealer, I admit, is a touchy subject. My LT-1 turbo engine uses it on the head bolts and it is a PITA.
Ray, most of us cannot or will not afford Snap On products. Perhaps Craftsman makes a 3/8" but I suggest it is irrelevant; at that low of a rating it does not really matter. I have no problem with having a 3rd torque wrench, and all my 1/4" sockets can withstand 100 inch-pounds of torque.
I agree with most everything you stated, thanks for responding. I am not a fan of RG, but the OP wanted to use them. It is his bike, let him do what he wants. I use the OEM gasket and stock bolts, but he is not me. I also agree that those low settings and anti-seize don't go together. No way, no how. I only drag race cars, not bikes, but I would not combine those two at all. But again, the OP was asking about the combination of ss bolts and a RG, and I believe it can be done, if done correctly. I did not want to speak for you, rather I merely wished to understand why you stated what you did.
TCK, We both know about the gasket removal fiasco, and especially the aftermarket vs. OEM gasket issues. I had two blow out on me on the road before I learned my lesson. Strangely enough, I only used aftermarket gaskets on my Kaws and never had (nor still have) any issues with them. I wonder why. Curious.

[Guest]

I've never used a real gasket myself but I will say I am with Ray on plain ol simple paper gaskets. Sometimes, if you coat the gasket lightly with some grease to keep it from baking to the mating surface, you can get a second use out of it when checking your clearances. Hopefully it will all stay on either the head or the cover and not end up half and half.


The only real benefit to me in using a real gasket would have been not having to spend more time scraping old gasket off than it took me to do the actual adjustment.
But AFAIK you can't use a RG with the 16v motors anyway because of the location of the tach drive.

Yes, they do have their pros & cons.....not sure I'll buy another, once this one is gone, but I definitely got my $$ worth out of it. They have to go on absolutely dry, to prevent the issues you mentioned earlier, which entails a cleaning of both metal surfaces & the gasket itself with some Varsol or similar solvent.....and as they have the consistency of al dente pasta, it takes some dexterity to get seated, without contacting any oily bits. Re. the tach drive issue, the RG is slightly thicker than the stock gasket, and can prevent proper meshing of the gears, esp. if some care is not taken, to ensure the gears are meshed & not simply sitting atop each other, ready to self-destruct on start-up. I heard the company was in the process of addressing the issue by reducing the thickness of the gasket (this was a few years ago).

[Guest]

You need to use a lubricant (anti-seize) when using stainless otherwise it will gall (cold weld). When galling occurs in your bike head you will rip the threads (not good) in the aluminum right out because it is so soft.

more info on galling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling

Thanks,
Dave

[tkent02]

Cmon, man! It's just a few inch pounds!
Put some ****ing lock tite on it to prevent corrosion and don't worry about it.

[john82q]

What tkent02 said,,only put more sweetly!

+ its a tappet cover! If your not needing to get in there more often than once a year (6000K) you dont ride your bike enough, and if you dont ride you need to be doing other maintenance, anyways, just add loosen clean and retighten bolts to the routine.

+ low torque means low pressure, means less likely to seize, corrode maybe, but if your removing it regulary as per above, no problem.

+ locktight, will second as a antiseize and sealer.

[koolaid_kid]

Sigh. Good Times, I apologize for the confusion. This is an internet community, thus everyone is entitled to voice their opinion. I stated the use of each compound, and stand by that statement.
Thread sealer is for just that, sealing threads that go into a fluid cavity (works for coolant as well as oil). You do not need or want to use that.
Anti-seize is to prevent incompatible metals from welding themselves to each other. It works well for its intended use, but it will not work for the very low torque requirements that the RG needs.
Locking compounds (commercial name is Loctite, but generics follow the same colour pattern) are designed to prevent bolts or nuts from backing out, and have different ratings for differing torque needs. Purple is for the very low torque needs that the RG requires.
The main thing to understand is that something should be between the threads of the stainless steel bolts and the aluminum head. For a RG, I would use purple loctite , it will do the trick. For a standard fiber gasket, anti-seize is what you want. Its higher torque requirements are fine for anti-seize.
I like the re-usability of the RG. Unfortunately, I had a bad experience with a RG (recommended to me on this forum many years ago) because my tach drive is in the head. If your bike does not have that issue, the RG, your stainless bolts, and purple loctite will work fine.
For my GS, I use OEM fiber gaskets. I had very bad experiences with aftermarket fiber gaskets, having one blow out on a Fennimore rally. Very embarrassing and time consuming to patch, not fix, while on the road. Surprisingly, few dealers carry gaskets for 30 year old bikes in stock (tongue in cheek, of course). I had another blow out just riding down the street. I stopped using them and switched back to OEM, no problems since then. The overall cost is an issue, since it must be replaced every time (or every other time) you adjust the valves, which should be done periodically. I keep one on hand for each bike just because I hate having leaks and hate not being able to ride due to a leak.
Short story: for a RG, use purple loctite. For an OEM fiber gasket, use anti-seize.