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    Potential for PPP

    Greetings all, I'd been putting off a post on this while I stumbled through what I knew to check on... I'll run through the problem first, then a breakdown of what I've done to try to address this.

    At idle, just started, bike runs great. Bike will not run on choke, starts cold from idle position, has instant power, takes off from cold start. (I understand that RPM isn't really helpful when trying to pinpoint the problem here, but I really don't know how to relay throttle position beyond 'just barely rocked') SO! When I try to rev the engine in-gear, the engine bogs down, won't accelerate worth a darn. I can run up to 4-5k rpms, switch gears, rinse and repeat. Bike won't breach 55mph. When I use engine to brake, it revs down just fine, handles it like it should - but when I pop the clutch to downshift the engine stalls. Release the clutch, let it roll, it restarts itself. (Compression is perfectly fine @ ~120psi across all 4)

    So - on to what I've done to try to address this. I've sync'ed the carbs twice, and reset air-idle mix 4/5 times. I have gone over the airbox (ordered after I got the bike, more on that later), checked for leaks there. Nothing trned up, but I resealed it anyways. Air filter looks just fine, its the K&N replacement for the stock filter. No oil, just dry. Engine intake boots + o-rings are new, no leaks there, tested with ether. Airbox intake boots are OK too, no cracks, no leaks. Carbs are clean as of a month ago. Have drained fuel thrice in an attempt to restart fresh every time. I do not know what jet size is currently in there - this is part of the reason I make this post (not to ID them, but to troubleshoot). Choke, again, has no effect on engine starting, running, or idle. If anything it runs worse on choke.

    *#3 spark plug threads are torn out, rethreaded the engine block and installed new plug today.
    *Petcock leaks. Almost f'ing always, and I thought I'd fixed that today - apparently not.
    *Bike came with carbs open, with pods in a box to the side. No airbox.
    *When I acquired the bike, it would NOT run consistently - it started once, then revved up to 6k rpms and I cut it off.
    *Valves are OK. I checked clearances, and while not perfect, are within tolerable operation specs. (.02 being the lowest clearance.)
    *Coils are great - sparks hurts like hell.
    *Plugs are pitch black when I pull them.
    *All plug gaps set @ .32
    **Stock carbs, stock pipes <- Edit

    So - my question now is:

    If the damn thing came with pods set aside, and no airbox, is it likely that the carbs were rejetted? PO was NO help, he had done much more harm than good when 'repairing' things. Absolutely disgusting. If it has been rejetted, would that explain my problems with the stock airbox? If so, is it advisable to return to the bloody pods?

    Have I overlooked or failed to include anything? Any assistance is much appreciated - for once I was confident that I could resolve a problem on my own. Damned if I wasn't wrong.

    #2
    It's running rich.

    Check the jet sizes and if they are oversized (don't rule out that someone may have drilled the jets) then return them to stock sizes.

    I assume you have a stock exhaust?
    Current:
    Z1300A5 Locomotive (swapped my Intruder for it), GS450 Cafe Project (might never finish it....), XT500 Commuter (I know - it's a Yamaha )

    Past:
    VL1500 Intruder (swapped for Z1300), ZX9R Streetfighter (lets face it - too fast....), 1984 GSX750EF, 1984 GSX1100EF (AKA GS1150)
    And a bunch of other crap Yamahas....

    Comment


      #3
      Oh - throw the pods in the trash.
      Current:
      Z1300A5 Locomotive (swapped my Intruder for it), GS450 Cafe Project (might never finish it....), XT500 Commuter (I know - it's a Yamaha )

      Past:
      VL1500 Intruder (swapped for Z1300), ZX9R Streetfighter (lets face it - too fast....), 1984 GSX750EF, 1984 GSX1100EF (AKA GS1150)
      And a bunch of other crap Yamahas....

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Call Me Ahab View Post
        Carbs are clean as of a month ago.

        <snip>

        Choke, again, has no effect on engine starting, running, or idle. If anything it runs worse on choke.
        First off, how do you know the carbs are clean? Did you strip and dip them? If the choke has no effect something is going on for sure, a properly jetted engine will run like garbage when warm and on the choke. You first need to pull the carbs, pop the float bowls off and identify what jets you currently have in there. Also check the needle and see what groove it is in. Until you do that you are wasting your time guessing.


        Originally posted by Call Me Ahab View Post
        for once I was confident that I could resolve a problem on my own. Damned if I wasn't wrong.
        You just haven't gone all the way yet. While you did a bunch of important work you are ignoring what the engine is telling you and hoping other things will fix it. If the plugs are sooty black then it is running very rich. The only way to deal with jetting is to look at the jetting.


        Originally posted by hillsy View Post
        Oh - throw the pods in the trash.
        I would disagree with this, but if OP wants to run the stock exhaust he might as well run the airbox too. If he was interested in making extra power then those pods and a decent 4-1 pipe would be what he needed.



        Mark
        1982 GS1100E
        1998 ZX-6R
        2005 KTM 450EXC

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by hillsy View Post
          It's running rich.

          Check the jet sizes and if they are oversized (don't rule out that someone may have drilled the jets) then return them to stock sizes.

          I assume you have a stock exhaust?
          That's correct - I have stock exhaust; How do I go about checking the jets? I see reference to them in my haynes (orwhatever the hell it is) manual but nothing beyond a "HERE THEY ARE!" sorta deal, doesn't say much otherwise. This is something I'll have to research.

          Originally posted by hillsy View Post
          Oh - throw the pods in the trash.
          HAH! Done, as soon as I opened the box and saw what kinda shape they were in, there's no way I'd have ever put em on a bike... PO was just an awful, mean, bastard of a 'mechanic' to this poor bike.

          Originally posted by mmattockx View Post
          First off, how do you know the carbs are clean? Did you strip and dip them? If the choke has no effect something is going on for sure, a properly jetted engine will run like garbage when warm and on the choke. You first need to pull the carbs, pop the float bowls off and identify what jets you currently have in there. Also check the needle and see what groove it is in. Until you do that you are wasting your time guessing.
          Despite numerous other undertakings and two carb cleanings / partial rebuilds; I'm kinda lost at the jets. And... groove the needle sits in? I know this sounds foolish but I really don't know what you mean by that one... Yes, the carbs are sparkly-clean! I stripped em apart, replaced every rubber bit I could, scraped the gunk out, dipped em, hand-washed em w/ hot water, dipped em again, blew em off w/ an air compressor, washed em again, and set em out to dry. Also scrubbed the hell out of them inside and out, the black spray paint the PO coated - e v e r y t h i n g - with, was also inside the carbs. Also used the "specialty tool" comprised of a wire-brush tooth and a matchstick. So the culprit is likely the jets then? Rather frustrating, I wasn't aware they could have such a drastic effect.

          Since I'm going to be starting my knowledge on jetting from scratch, can you direct me to a primer on the subject? If I leave this open to public forum I'll never stop asking questions, god help you all...

          I will, however, ask this one... where is a safe place to buy jets, once I know what I need? And is there an easy / safe way of determining what I do need? Should I go back to stock, or is there an upgrade / update that works better w/ stock exhaust?


          EDIT: removed a broken quote

          Comment


            #6
            There should be a specs page in your manual for what jets should be in the carbs. Jets are only a few $ each, so just getting a fresh set would probably be a good idea (the hack PO may have drilled out the stock ones.....)

            As for pods working better than an airbox - not cheap pods on CV carbs. You'll lose power, if anything.
            Current:
            Z1300A5 Locomotive (swapped my Intruder for it), GS450 Cafe Project (might never finish it....), XT500 Commuter (I know - it's a Yamaha )

            Past:
            VL1500 Intruder (swapped for Z1300), ZX9R Streetfighter (lets face it - too fast....), 1984 GSX750EF, 1984 GSX1100EF (AKA GS1150)
            And a bunch of other crap Yamahas....

            Comment


              #7
              Take a magnifying glass and look on the top of each jet for a number - post that here. If the PO did drill them out, you'll want to post up the pictures of them too.

              I have stock jets in my 550 so I'm not very knowledgeable about changing sizes but I believe Z1 sells some and I know I read many other threads about jetting. Use the advanced search feature with it set to titles only and the keyword jets
              Cowboy Up or Quit. - Run Free Lou and Rest in Peace

              1981 GS550T - My First
              1981 GS550L - My Eldest Daughter's - Now Sold
              2007 GSF1250SA Bandit - My touring bike

              Sit tall in the saddle Hold your head up high
              Keep your eyes fixed where the trail meets the sky and live like you ain't afraid to die
              and don't be scared, just enjoy your ride - Chris Ledoux, "The Ride"

              Comment


                #8
                you only left out 1 thing what bike is it

                you need to go here all the info and how to's you could possibly want are on this site


                you need to fix the petcock leak and change the oil because if the petcock is leaking then just about garenteed you have gas in the oil

                then you need to take the carbs off and do a clean and dip according to the how to on basscliffs site

                when you do the clean and dip according to the how to then you will find out about your jet sizes and then we can tell you what stock jets you need as long as we know the bike and year

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by hillsy View Post
                  There should be a specs page in your manual for what jets should be in the carbs. Jets are only a few $ each, so just getting a fresh set would probably be a good idea (the hack PO may have drilled out the stock ones.....)
                  I've been trying to comb through the digital copy of the manual for that section, not much luck last night as my eyes wore out and I had to hit the sack - revisiting that today.

                  Originally posted by Spyderman View Post
                  you only left out 1 thing what bike is it

                  you need to go here all the info and how to's you could possibly want are on this site


                  you need to fix the petcock leak and change the oil because if the petcock is leaking then just about garenteed you have gas in the oil

                  when you do the clean and dip according to the how to then you will find out about your jet sizes and then we can tell you what stock jets you need as long as we know the bike and year
                  **A bit of clarification - no fuel leaks INTO the tube, it's all leaking out of the petcock onto the bloody engine. I thought the problem was the o-ring being too small, replaced it and still no luck. Very irritating.

                  Woops!
                  '81 GS1000G - My mistake. I found the manual on basscliff's site but I can't use the "find" function, so I'm combing through it page by page.

                  Originally posted by cowboyup3371 View Post
                  Take a magnifying glass and look on the top of each jet for a number - post that here. If the PO did drill them out, you'll want to post up the pictures of them too.

                  I have stock jets in my 550 so I'm not very knowledgeable about changing sizes but I believe Z1 sells some and I know I read many other threads about jetting. Use the advanced search feature with it set to titles only and the keyword jets
                  Awesome, you guys have been great! Going to go try to patch the petcock leak somehow... Then I'll be tearing off the carbs and checking my jets. I'll post back as soon as I know something. Thanks again!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Okay, I removed the bowls and I see a jet that reads 120. Is this the jet I'm looking for? Does this mean it's over-sized? I can't find my bike in the manual so I'm going off the gs1000E - according to that one, the "Main Jet" is a 95??? If this jet is wrong, how many others do I need to check?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Call Me Ahab View Post
                      '81 GS1000G - My mistake. I found the manual on basscliff's site but I can't use the "find" function, so I'm combing through it page by page.
                      You are looking for a heading usually titled "Service Specifications". Looking at the GS1000 manual on bikecliff's site the service specs are in section 2. The fuel system is on 2-5 and 2-6, which is pages 17 and 18 of the pdf. Stock pilot jets are #15 and stock mains are #95.


                      Originally posted by Call Me Ahab View Post
                      Okay, I removed the bowls and I see a jet that reads 120. Is this the jet I'm looking for? Does this mean it's over-sized? I can't find my bike in the manual so I'm going off the gs1000E - according to that one, the "Main Jet" is a 95??? If this jet is wrong, how many others do I need to check?
                      Check them all, who knows what the PO did? You also need to check your pilot jets and maybe the air jets. The fuel system is in section 8 of the manual, it begins on page 101 of the pdf. It shows the location of all the jets and how to strip the carbs down to nothing.

                      Yes, a #120 is substantially bigger than a #95. Jets typically go in steps of 5 (ie - 95, 100, 105, etc.), so your 120 is 5 sizes bigger than stock. That is about appropriate to run a 4-1 pipe and pod filters, especially if you live a ways above sea level.


                      Mark
                      1982 GS1100E
                      1998 ZX-6R
                      2005 KTM 450EXC

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by mmattockx View Post
                        You are looking for a heading usually titled "Service Specifications". Looking at the GS1000 manual on bikecliff's site the service specs are in section 2. The fuel system is on 2-5 and 2-6, which is pages 17 and 18 of the pdf. Stock pilot jets are #15 and stock mains are #95.




                        Check them all, who knows what the PO did? You also need to check your pilot jets and maybe the air jets. The fuel system is in section 8 of the manual, it begins on page 101 of the pdf. It shows the location of all the jets and how to strip the carbs down to nothing.

                        Yes, a #120 is substantially bigger than a #95. Jets typically go in steps of 5 (ie - 95, 100, 105, etc.), so your 120 is 5 sizes bigger than stock. That is about appropriate to run a 4-1 pipe and pod filters, especially if you live a ways above sea level.


                        Mark
                        Now I'm quite thoroughly confused... (I did find the appropriate pages, thank you! Printing them now.)

                        I just pulled 2 120's, and 2 125's?? It's stock exhaust, what the hell is going on here? What would be the reason for doing this?

                        And... page 101; these are... not my carbs... What's going on here D:
                        Last edited by Guest; 09-10-2014, 04:58 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Call Me Ahab View Post
                          I just pulled 2 120's, and 2 125's?? It's stock exhaust, what the hell is going on here? What would be the reason for doing this?
                          As I said, you never know what a PO has done. Were the 125's in the middle two carbs? Some jet kits used to put one size richer mains in the middle two because those cylinders run slightly hotter than the outer two.


                          Originally posted by Call Me Ahab View Post
                          And... page 101; these are... not my carbs... What's going on here D:
                          Have a look at page 15-30 (page 293 in the pdf). Those are the BS34SS carbs, they are a constant velocity type which is different than the older VM carbs. Is this what you have? According to the section on the E/ST, the BS34's have a #40 pilot jet and a #107.5 main jet.


                          Mark
                          1982 GS1100E
                          1998 ZX-6R
                          2005 KTM 450EXC

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by mmattockx View Post
                            As I said, you never know what a PO has done. Were the 125's in the middle two carbs? Some jet kits used to put one size richer mains in the middle two because those cylinders run slightly hotter than the outer two.




                            Have a look at page 15-30 (page 293 in the pdf). Those are the BS34SS carbs, they are a constant velocity type which is different than the older VM carbs. Is this what you have? According to the section on the E/ST, the BS34's have a #40 pilot jet and a #107.5 main jet.


                            Mark
                            The 125's were in the #3 and #4 carbs.

                            Yes! They're the BS34's! fantastic, thank you!

                            So the only thing I need to do is replace the main and pilot jets, then synchronize, then reset air-fuel mixtures? (apart from replacing the diaphragm on the petcock)

                            christ, the pilot jets are 71.5's... ------- I'm wrong, theyre 45's. I'm not sure what I've got there that's a 71.5 <.<
                            Last edited by Guest; 09-10-2014, 06:43 PM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Okay, I'm needing some clarification.

                              I'm looking at the manual and I see: Pilot Jet; Main Jet; Start Jet; Main Air Jet.

                              I've identified my Main Jet @ 120/125. Pilot Jet I think I have identified @ 45.

                              I have pulled my Main Air Jet, and I was wondering what the stock size is? I cannot find this in the manual, or am I overlooking it? Wait, now I'm even further confused - Main Air Jet size is 1.7, mine say 71.5?? What in the world am I looking at??

                              Once I replace the jets, is there some special way they need to be installed or do I just turn until they stop?

                              ***
                              Also, I'm now further confused by the Pilot Jet - the picture on z1 enterprises shows several holes on the side of the jet. Mine only has 2, on either end of the jet. What's with this?
                              Last edited by Guest; 09-10-2014, 07:03 PM.

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