What next in the Carb set up.

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  • Guest

    #1

    What next in the Carb set up.

    History.

    The bike has been through a number of PO and a ?rebuild? at a price. However we basically have a 1978 GS1000 with VM carbs.

    So we have a 4into1 exhaust which should be equivalent to original in terms of back pressure. The original air box has been removed with foam filters in their place. The carbs were stripped and examined, two of the carbs had over tightened pilot fuel screws (the one underneath) with snapped tips. Two new bodies obtained and all 4 ultra sonically cleaned and new O rings fitted. The original main jet was way over the top, 10 steps up, so played with the jet size following advice on this forum, settled on 102.5 main jets. So started getting some miles under the belt and chasing various problems using the Factory Pro article as a guide. However had bigger issues to resolve before coming back to the carb. So finally got around to the oil consumption issue which required a top end overhaul due to glazed bores. Task completed and new air filters added as the foam ones were starting to crumble.

    So current fit.

    105 mains (New pods have less resistance)
    #15 slow jets
    All O rings have been replaced.
    Carb rubbers are sound and air tight.
    Valve clearances are good and well within limits.

    So after a 15 mile shake down ride, carbs synced and timing checked and adjusted. Slow running was 2,500RPM, made a bit of town driving interesting!

    Out for a good 50 mile test and see how she?s going. Good bit, pulls really well with 3/4+ throttle, big grins under the helmet, so I think I have the right main jet. However, there is always a however, under mid throttle cruise conditions you can hear and feel a hunting/note change from the carbs/engine which goes if you add a bit more throttle. The really big issue is when you pull up to a junction and the engine quits if you don?t blip the throttle and even then I can end up with a dead engine.

    So today carbs out and a few checks.
    Float height checked,24mm.
    Pilot screw removed, carb cleaner squirted and reset to 7/8 turn out.
    Air screws removed, carb cleaner squirted and set to an initial 3 turns out.

    All reassembled and carb balancer fitted and the bike fired up and warmed up.
    Timing checked and minor adjustment, carb balance.

    So here come the non normal symptoms.

    As the engine gets hot, when the throttle is blipped the revs hang at 3,000RPM or more before setting to about 1,500 or less. Quite often the engine would just die before I could blip the throttle or adjust the throttle adjuster. I have tried to adjust the air mixture screws however as I can not get a consistent slow idle I felt I was wasting my time. So my best guess is I have a lean issue here, if so how to progress. Do I adjust the fuel level, change the needle height or do I need to go for bigger slow running jets.

    Advice and suggestions please. As always thanks in advance for your advice.

    Greg
  • Big T
    Forum LongTimer
    Past Site Supporter
    Super Site Supporter
    • Mar 2005
    • 12414
    • West Slope, OR

    #2
    Idle circuits blocked
    Still have points ignition?
    Dying idle is often tight valves. Did you use the FSM to adjust?
    1978 GS 1000 (since new)
    1979 GS 1000 (The Fridge, superbike replica project)
    1978 GS 1000 (parts)
    1981 GS 850 (anyone want a project?)
    1981 GPZ 550 (backroad screamer)
    1970 450 Mk IIID (THUMP!)
    2007 DRz 400S
    1999 ATK 490ES
    1994 DR 350SES

    Comment

    • Guest

      #3
      Partial throttle cruise hunting sounds lean to me. Richen the needles one notch and see what happens. If your pilot jets are clean, then try richening them as well (turn them out 1/4 turn at a time on the pilot screw) and see how you get on.

      Comment

      • zed1015
        Forum Mentor
        • Oct 2020
        • 413
        • North Lincolnshire - UK .

        #4
        With Open carbs or pods you need to fit air corrector jets to cure the low end hesitation/rough running off idle lean condition.
        Click on the link below.
        Once fitted put all settings , pilot jet, needle position back to stock and go up on the mains to suit your engine tune which if stock is usually just a couple of sizes up from std.
        Don't muck about with bigger pilots, lifting the needles or compensating by richening on the mixture screws to fix the issue as this will only mask the lean spot and over richen everywhere else causing lower mpg and significant top end power loss.
        Last edited by zed1015; 11-07-2020, 05:28 AM.
        Mikuni Viton Choke Plunger Seat Renewal.
        VITON Choke plunger seals .KAWASAKI Z1,Z900,Z650,Z1000,Z1R,SUZUKI GS1000,GSXR,RF | eBay

        Air Corrector Jets for Mikuni VM 24, 26 and 28mm carbs .
        https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254380193...84.m1555.l2649



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        • Steve
          GS Whisperer
          • Jun 2005
          • 35927
          • southwest oHIo

          #5
          Your air screws are out too far.

          The rule of thumb is "double the fuel screw setting", which would put them at 1 3/4 turns.

          Personally, I would set them a bit richer at 1 1/2 turns.

          .
          sigpic
          mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
          hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
          #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
          #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
          Family Portrait
          Siblings and Spouses
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          Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
          (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

          Comment

          • Guest

            #6
            Thanks Guys,

            Big T,
            Will check the idle circuit this weekend, should have said that it has electronic ignition and not too sure what FSM stands for however used Steve’s data sheet and a Haynes manual. Replaced 4 shims.

            80GS1000. Thanks the only issue I have is due COVID and lock down I’m allowed out to play, but will explore.

            Zed. Interesting, more reading.

            Steve. Yes I set them that way to adjust down using the carb balancer, just never made it that far. Thanks for your many contributions to all posts. I respect them all.

            Comment

            • zed1015
              Forum Mentor
              • Oct 2020
              • 413
              • North Lincolnshire - UK .

              #7
              Originally posted by Greg65
              Thanks Guys,

              Not too sure what FSM stands for however used Steve?s data sheet and a Haynes manual. Replaced 4 shims.
              It just stands for Factory Service Manual.
              Mikuni Viton Choke Plunger Seat Renewal.
              VITON Choke plunger seals .KAWASAKI Z1,Z900,Z650,Z1000,Z1R,SUZUKI GS1000,GSXR,RF | eBay

              Air Corrector Jets for Mikuni VM 24, 26 and 28mm carbs .
              https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254380193...84.m1555.l2649



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              • cowboyup3371
                Forum LongTimer
                Past Site Supporter
                • Apr 2010
                • 14004
                • In Ohio Now

                #8
                Originally posted by zed1015
                It just stands for Factory Service Manual.
                Which you can get here - http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/
                Cowboy Up or Quit. - Run Free Lou and Rest in Peace

                1981 GS550T - My First
                1981 GS550L - My Eldest Daughter's - Now Sold
                2007 GSF1250SA Bandit - My touring bike

                Sit tall in the saddle Hold your head up high
                Keep your eyes fixed where the trail meets the sky and live like you ain't afraid to die
                and don't be scared, just enjoy your ride - Chris Ledoux, "The Ride"

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                • Big T
                  Forum LongTimer
                  Past Site Supporter
                  Super Site Supporter
                  • Mar 2005
                  • 12414
                  • West Slope, OR

                  #9
                  It's very likely that the pods you're using are blocking the air intakes in the carb mouth

                  I don't remember if it's the Haynes, or Chilton, manual that has the incorrect valve lash method

                  Check the FSM, or the Basscliff page, for the correct one and compare

                  VM carbs should idle perfectly. Tweak that air screw in per Steve
                  1978 GS 1000 (since new)
                  1979 GS 1000 (The Fridge, superbike replica project)
                  1978 GS 1000 (parts)
                  1981 GS 850 (anyone want a project?)
                  1981 GPZ 550 (backroad screamer)
                  1970 450 Mk IIID (THUMP!)
                  2007 DRz 400S
                  1999 ATK 490ES
                  1994 DR 350SES

                  Comment

                  • Guest

                    #10
                    One more suggestion: I highly recommend using a wideband sensor in the exhaust with an AFR gauge if you can get your hands on one. It makes the tuning process so much easier and faster as you can get a real time readout of your AFR for your current tune. I find my bike pulls like a train between about 12.8 and 13.5 AFR. I've tuned it to be on the richer side at WOT (main jet) for engine safety and a little on the leaner side on the pilots and needle for better power and fuel economy.




                    Last edited by Guest; 11-07-2020, 06:12 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Guest

                      #11
                      Thanks all, Big T your suggestion sounds obvious and something I hadn’t thought of, also quick and easy to check.

                      Cheers all and happy spannering.

                      Comment

                      • zed1015
                        Forum Mentor
                        • Oct 2020
                        • 413
                        • North Lincolnshire - UK .

                        #12
                        If you have pods that are masking the air bleeds in the mouth of the carb this will cause over fueling.
                        Totally opposite to the symptoms you initially explained.
                        Regardless of any other carb issues you have you must fit air corrector jets with pods to rectify the lean off idle fueling which you describe in your first post.
                        Last edited by zed1015; 11-08-2020, 04:38 AM.
                        Mikuni Viton Choke Plunger Seat Renewal.
                        VITON Choke plunger seals .KAWASAKI Z1,Z900,Z650,Z1000,Z1R,SUZUKI GS1000,GSXR,RF | eBay

                        Air Corrector Jets for Mikuni VM 24, 26 and 28mm carbs .
                        https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254380193...84.m1555.l2649



                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • Guest

                          #13
                          Thanks Zed I understand your logic and agree. Having spoken to several people on a Facebook group I have come to the same conclusion and I need to fit the correctors. As a lowly apprentice in the dark art of carburettors I appreciate all advice.

                          Cheers all.

                          Comment

                          • hannibal
                            Forum Sage
                            • Jun 2015
                            • 1033
                            • Washington DC

                            #14
                            What is air corrector jet and where are you planning to fit them on the VM carbs?
                            Jordan

                            1977 Suzuki GS750 (My first bike)
                            2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
                            1973 BMW R75/5

                            Comment

                            • Guest

                              #15
                              Hi Hannibal, see post No4. The link is to a UK eBay listing, no idea if there is US stockist.

                              Comment

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