Something hinky with GS1100E starter or starter clutch?

[oldGSfan]

Something happened this morning with GS #2 that is a bit perplexing. It has 20K miles on it, sat a long time in pieces. I've been riding it around after assembly and have probably started it 30x in the last few days, everything seemed fine mechanically, starting, etc. I tried starting it last night, but the motor wouldn't spin. It seemed locked up somehow.

This morning, with the battery fully charged, I hit the button, and it just wouldn't budge, same deal. I tried putting it in gear and bumping it, but not wanting to make a bad thing worse, I didn't give it the Welly. I just tried to nudge things along. No movement at all. Fear was setting in - how can this be? I rode it into the garage yesterday and heard nothing odd. I removed the plugs and the right side 'igniter' cover, and the engine turned freely with a wrench. I put the plugs back in, and it started right up, runs fine.

The symptoms are odd to me, a starter clutch issue makes a loud clank and/or free-spinning & 'zinging' noises, from my experience - in that bike's case it turned out to be a weak battery. It seems like it got into a position where it couldn't overcome the compression (?). Starter motor tired? I have all the parts and puller to examine this one's starter clutch, they came with GS #1 which turned out to be just a weak battery - I took it all apart and it was fine, so I have the bits needed.

Not adding up for me, any ideas where to look first?

[Big Block]

I dealt with a similar issue last week on my 1000. It would spin over perfect, then sometimes it wouldn't Battery good, switch good, relay good, cable good. Then I pulled the starter out and disassembled it. I had to resolder the leads that attach to the stud inside the starter barrel. Mine would either kick over perfect or strain against the engine or not have enough power to spin it over. Something to check anyway and you can take the time to clean up the armature and have a look at the brushes anyway.
What I think happened is when the PO disassembled it and took off the cable he wasn't careful and twisted the stud. Either that or it was failing for awhile and that's why the bike was taken apart to begin with.
BTW: You can sneak the starter out underneath the carbs and airbox, it takes patience is all. Removing the Airbox starter joy.jpg on these SOB's is something I avoid at all costs.

[rphillips]

A thought, there can be enough carbon build-up on the commutator in the starter, sometimes the brushes won't get a good enough connection to power the starter motor. When it happened to me, I found if I put the bike in gear and bumped it "backwards" enough to turn the engine slightly, it will turn the starter commutator a little, enough the brushes were contacting a different place and all would be good till the starter stopped at that same bad spot again. A good cleaning of the inside of the starter fixed everything as the brushes weren't near worn out. Not say'in that's it, just maybe something to think about.

[oldGSfan]

That all makes sense, thanks, guys. I wanted to bump it, but not knowing what was going on inside the engine, I took it easy. It didn't move anything, being extra careful. I was thinking the starter was in a 'dead spot' perhaps, which ain't good, but it's fixable. Definitely want to leave the airbox in place. I have a distant memory of removing a starter without removing the airbox. Takes patience.

[oldGSfan]

Took the starter out, cleaned it well & dressed the commutator & brushes. First test on re-install... it still works! We'll see how things go. There was a fair bit of grunge on the commutator.

The arrow up by the commutator is just for my reference. I don't know if the outer magnets are directional, but being magnets, I suspect yes. I take pics of all assemblies as I disassemble them.

[Big Block]

Hopefully that smartens it up. That starter is different than mine is. I know they used a couple of different vendors. Yours looks to be in good shape, brushes look good too.

[oldGSfan]

Hopefully that smartens it up. That starter is different than mine is. I know they used a couple of different vendors. Yours looks to be in good shape, brushes look good too.

Yep, here's hoping. I appreciate the inputs from you and rphillips. I'm thinking this must be it, there's no weird clanking or other starter clutch noises, it always cranked over perfectly until this one time where it may have gagged on some carbon. Time will tell. Now that I know there's no internal engine issues I will be less worried about putting it in gear and bumping it, should it happen again.

The bike is very good, just waiting on a new centerstand spring and sort the carbs due a bit of burbling/farting between 1-2K RPM, isolated to #2 cylinder and not ignition, as I swapped 2 & 3 to check, no difference. Perhaps the choke plunger is at fault, hope not. I am very careful with my rebuilds and have had good luck, It's fully rideable but I can hear it, and by smell it is a bit rich maybe (but plugs are fine). Gonna give it an Italian tune-up, that sorted my other '83 haha.

[rphillips]

Tom, did I read this right??? did you say "but plugs are fine"... Hope the starter is sorted, waiting to hear the same about #2 carb.

[oldGSfan]

Tom, did I read this right??? did you say "but plugs are fine"... Hope the starter is sorted, waiting to hear the same about #2 carb.

Yeah, nothing to do with the starter. I've just been going for some rides and checking the overall health of the bike. Took out the plugs to inspect, and none are carbon-encrusted. I took temp readings and #2 a bit cooler, maybe 15 to 20 percent. I hope to be able to sort it out without pulling the carbs, will see.

[Don R]

Check the oil for gas, the petcock can leak into cyl #2 and hydro lock it. If that was the case, you would probably know by now though.

[oldGSfan]

Check the oil for gas, the petcock can leak into cyl #2 and hydro lock it. If that was the case, you would probably know by now though.

Interesting point, Don, thanks. I had a fuel overflow on the floor that morning. It's been fine before and since - the petcock, which I recently rebuilt by using parts of two, must not have returned to the off position; perhaps the inner spring didn't push the diaphragm. I removed the plugs and used my borescope on all cylinders and saw no fuel. But IIRC #2 seemed a bit cleaner than the others.

I will investigate further today.

The petcock has a metal ring in it that pushes the diaphragm to allow fuel to pass on Prime. I bought an OEM one and didn't realize it was broken until it was past the return date. Later I acquired another OEM one that had a hole in the diaphragm, so I made two from one. It bench-tested OK, but it seemed a tad slow to return to the sealed position.

[Rob S.]

Tom, did I read this right??? did you say "but plugs are fine"...

Are you talking about the toys in your garage or the ones under the bed?

[oldGSfan]

Jeez, I didn't even get that reference, guess I'm not as much of a perv....good to know you guys are out there tho. Butt is two 't's, no? I'll have to check my plug gap.

[oldGSfan]

Check the oil for gas, the petcock can leak into cyl #2 and hydro lock it. If that was the case, you would probably know by now though.

I drained the oil. It smells of gas, but my sniffer isn't particularly accurate, so I looked into ways to determine if there's gas in there. I tried one method I Googled - drip a couple of drops onto cardboard and see if it creates two distinct rings, due to different absorption rates. I did it next to some fresh oil - inconclusive.

I'll put fresh oil and a filter in it. That spring inside the petcock is pretty weak sauce. I carefully examined and assembled it with the best diaphragm (of 3 I had). I don't want to change petcocks, I really don't like on/off (Pingel) types. I'm thinking things over - it seems that it will only leak after running and not returning to off. I think I'll do some testing with it on the tank, using a small vacuum pump and a bucket.

[oldGSfan]

It turns out that it was leaking fuel into the carbs through the vacuum hose. There's a tiny diaphragm inside the vacuum cover, and of the two I had, I used the bad one. I didn't test it out well enough, so it's on me. At least it's a no-cost fix.