Click . . .

[MikeS]

I've had my 82 GS850G since last November and ride it every day. There have been no problems until yesterday when I hit the starter and it didn't catch - not enough choke. Happens all the time. So a couple quick twists of the throttle and a tad more choke and push the button again and click. All I hear is the relay clicking. One click for each button push.

I put the battery on slow charge and today tried again. Click.

I cleaned the contacts on the cables going in and out of the relay.

This is the first occasion I've had to wish I had the kick starter that I had on my '79.

I'm suspecting the starter solenoid has a flat spot on the rotor - kind of like what happens with electric window motors in cars. Banging on the door can get them off center and working again . . . does this sound possible with the GS850 starting aparatus? I've never taken anything apart on these - never had to with the .79 in 70K miles. This '82 only has 17K on it now.

Console lights are bright. Fuses are fine. All the electrical stuff works.

Anybody have any suggestions?

Thanks,

Mike

[tkent02]

I'm suspecting the starter solenoid has a flat spot on the rotor

There's no rotor in the solenoid, but try giving it a good whack as you are holding the button down, that may knock some sense into it.

[tom203]

If whacking it doesn't work, try jumping across the two large solenoid terminals- please make sure bike is in neutral!!!! The starter motor could have a dead spot but this is unlikely.

[Steve]

And don't bother giving the throttle a couple of twists.

Our carbs do not have accelerator pumps, so twisting the throttle with the engine not running does absolutely NOTHING.

Oh, you don't want to touch the throttle when using the "choke", either. Since the "choke" is actually an enrichment system, it opens another passage for air and fuel and relies on the high engine vacuum to pull a rich mixture through. If you open the throttle AT ALL, you destroy the vacuum that is necessary, and you will force the engine to pull gas through the "normal" jets, but they are not adequate for a cold engine.

.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Test your battery. Go through the Stator Papers. Check and clean all of your electrical connections. See the following links for tips.

Testing The Ignition System
More On The Stator Papers
GS Charging System Health
Diagnosing Slow Cranking
Igniter/Signal Generator/Coil Test
Igniter Repair/Testing (2MB PDF)

Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[chuckycheese]

Sigh....this should be a 'sticky'.

If your relay (solenoid) is clicking, it is almost, for sure, working properly. Your solenoid clicks every, single time you start your bike. When it starts successfully, you don't hear it because the click is 'drowned out' by the noise created by the starter and the engine turning over.

Since your solenoid is clicking, you know your starter button is working and that you're getting power to the solenoid. I believe you're going to find that your problem is either the wire between the solenoid and the starter or, more likely, the starter itself. It's also possible that your battery is sending enough voltage to power the solenoid but, not enough to turn over the starter.

I think you'll find that the only reason you may need a new solenoid will be if you take it apart and ruin it.

[MikeS]

Thanks for all the suggestions and info . . . I haven't had a chance to get back to the bike but will report on whatever it is that fixes the problem.

Re twisting the throttle for starting . . . I've been told a number of times that twisting the throttle a couple times before hitting the button doesn't do anything physically to help the starting process. It annoys the technically-minded folks who notice my quick wrist action when starting the bike. I really can't argue about this other than to say it actually somehow does help the starting process. There are mysterious levels of communication that go on between a bike and its owner, things that are invisible to others and make no sense other than on the esoteric plane. Starting rituals have been around as long as machinery and hardly anyone will deny they don't work even if there is no apparent reason why they should. I have no idea why twisting the throttle a couple times helps start the bike, but it always has . . . just like how hard I grip the key and twist it in the ignition makes the difference between whether my car starts or not. The car "knows" somehow whether I'm actually paying attention to starting the car or whether I'm thinking of something else. Same with the bike. If my attention is truly on getting the car or bike started and if I perform the requisite rituals, the vehicles start. If I'm not giving it my all, they know. The links that bind a machine to its operator are more subtle than outlined in the manual.

Clearly with this current electrical problem the bike is telling me I've been taking it for granted and it's not happy. The '82 must be more touchy than my '79 was.

[Steve]

Clearly, you must obey whatever superstition you feel necessary, but please don't be surprised or even upset if it starts some day even though you forgot to twist the throttle.

Some bikes, like my Wing, do have pumps in the carbs, so twisting the trottle does make a differrence, but my starting "ritual" is the same for my GL or my GS: Apply partial engagement of enrichment system ("choke"), turn on key, verify neutral, press starter button. Modulate idle speed with enrichment lever, put on helmet, get on bike, ride. When in second gear, turn enrichment system off, continue riding.

.

[tkent02]

Thanks for all the suggestions and info . . . I haven't had a chance to get back to the bike but will report on whatever it is that fixes the problem.

Re twisting the throttle for starting . . . I've been told a number of times that twisting the throttle a couple times before hitting the button doesn't do anything physically to help the starting process. It annoys the technically-minded folks who notice my quick wrist action when starting the bike. I really can't argue about this other than to say it actually somehow does help the starting process. There are mysterious levels of communication that go on between a bike and its owner, things that are invisible to others and make no sense other than on the esoteric plane. Starting rituals have been around as long as machinery and hardly anyone will deny they don't work even if there is no apparent reason why they should. I have no idea why twisting the throttle a couple times helps start the bike, but it always has . . . just like how hard I grip the key and twist it in the ignition makes the difference between whether my car starts or not. The car "knows" somehow whether I'm actually paying attention to starting the car or whether I'm thinking of something else. Same with the bike. If my attention is truly on getting the car or bike started and if I perform the requisite rituals, the vehicles start. If I'm not giving it my all, they know. The links that bind a machine to its operator are more subtle than outlined in the manual.

Clearly with this current electrical problem the bike is telling me I've been taking it for granted and it's not happy. The '82 must be more touchy than my '79 was.

Or you could fix the properly, give the starter button a quick flick, and have it instantly idling, every time.

[MikeS]

I'll check the properly. Good suggestion.

> "Apply partial engagement of enrichment system ("choke"), turn on key, verify neutral, press starter button. Modulate idle speed with enrichment lever, put on helmet, get on bike, ride."

So much for Ride Free or Die . . .

[MikeS]

Problem was the starter itself. It hasn't been acting up at all, so this failure was out of the blue and occurred at 18,300 miles. I'm going to take the one out of the '79 and put it in the new bike and I guess get this one rebuilt? Funny I never had the starter go out on the old bike during all that time. Are these starters known for failure? How unusual is it for a starter to fail so soon?

I've got the mod on this bike that I've read about on the GSForums whereby a bypass is created (I think is the way it works?) that improves the amps delivered to the starter. Could this mod contribute to burning out the starter early? If so, seems like it would be a good idea to disconnect that mod.

What's the common wisdom on failed starters? Cheaper to re-build than to buy another one? I'm going to put a starter in this bike that has 70K miles on it so it would be a good idea to have a back-up.

Mike

[MikeS]

Jeez . . . it's been two months since the starter started acting up and was fixed by putting in the starter from my old bike. It's been fine since.

I've got the failed starter on my desk and will get around to taking it apart and seeing if I can fix whatever is wrong. Since this type of starter doesn't have brushes (I'm told) I'm thinking it's just a broken wire.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone who replied. I'm glad it turned out to be an easy fix. It sure is nice to have an old bike of the same make and model when it comes to replacing and/or testing parts. My Clymer manual said I needed to take the carbs off to get to the starter - so I was thinking changing out the starter was going to be a big job. Clymer manual was wrong.

[tom203]

Jeez . . . it's been two months since the starter started acting up and was fixed by putting in the starter from my old bike. It's been fine since.

I've got the failed starter on my desk and will get around to taking it apart and seeing if I can fix whatever is wrong. Since this type of starter doesn't have brushes (I'm told) I'm thinking it's just a broken wire.

If your starter doesn't have brushes, I would like a pic please. Different suppliers made slighty different starter motors, but I haven't seen any without brushes.
If you are refering to coil relay modification ( to boost voltage to coils), this won't contribute to starter failure. Thanks to the solenoid the starter motor basically acts as a short circuit (maybe 60 amps) for a brief time - excessive use of it ( i.e., hard starting ) will result in shorter life.