Self-cancel seeds a-sproutin'...

**JEEPRUSTY** · 02-20-2012, 05:13 PM

Oh my RB good luck.

**spyug** · 02-20-2012, 05:29 PM

Something like that would be very welcome by lots of us I think. Me especially as I nearly got creamed on my last ride of the season when a guy came out of a side street into my path while all the time looking at me. Of course I went berserk on him, and he on me. Within a minute I realised what had happened.....turn signal on.

I felt rather sheepish but glad to be injury free.

Thanks for working on this and good luck to you.

cheers,
spyug

**rustybronco** · 02-20-2012, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by robertbarr

On bikes that came with self-canceling signals, there is some sort of reed switch in the speedo assembly that counts revolutions. That I know; what I need to know is, how many times does that reed switch open & close per wheel revolution? I don't currently have possession of such a bike, or I could check myself.

I can't tell you how many times per wheel revolution, but it occurs 4 times per revolution at the imput of the speedometer.

**chuck hahn** · 02-20-2012, 09:40 PM

I have been pondering what solution to soak he mother board in that will dissolve that black hard packing but not destroy the waffle board. This would allow a clean view of the curcuitry and components...I was leaning at MEK, maybe gasoline...

**bakalorz** · 02-21-2012, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by robertbarr

OK, for those of you who know what a PICAXE is -- and I'm sure there are some fellow addicts out there -- or even for those who are somehow immune:

On bikes that came with self-canceling signals, there is some sort of reed switch in the speedo assembly that counts revolutions. That I know; what I need to know is, how many times does that reed switch open & close per wheel revolution? I don't currently have possession of such a bike, or I could check myself.

Many of you are already forming the image of a flowchart, and pondering what neat things can be done with this nugget of digital signaling. Well, I'm sure there have been 4,396 or more attempts at creating a new, better "Black Box" for resurrecting / improving the self-cancel function. I'm off and running on attempt 4,397.

With a PICAXE, if I can get the process to work at all, I'll have a very flexible & easily modified system. I remember how much I liked the self-cancels on my original '79 GS850, and I want that back. Plus a project to horse around with...

Wish me luck!

Rather than a PicAxe, it might be worth just using a raw Pic instead ...

They are actually surprisingly easy to program.
The data sheet tells you everything you need to know to do it.

post 13 in this thread details what you need ...
but get WinPIC here instead (the original link is down)

I've had the idea of doing a pic version of the self canceler for a while now ... I'll probably get around to it if I ever get the proper left handle bar switch ... but its like the 4th or 5th project in line ...

**Matchless** · 02-21-2012, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by chuck hahn

I have been pondering what solution to soak he mother board in that will dissolve that black hard packing but not destroy the waffle board. This would allow a clean view of the curcuitry and components...I was leaning at MEK, maybe gasoline...

Chuck,
A couple of weeks ago I decided to see what a self cancelling unit off a Yamaha was made of. I removed the outer casing and dipped the block of potting compound in various substances and nothing worked.

Then I attacked it with my hot air gun and a small watchmakers screwdriver and carefully heated the resin and chipped it away. I had to be careful around the capacitors as one wants to know their value and the heat easily melts the outer plastic. It took a couple of hours working at it on and off and I now have the complete circuit cleaned out and all the values of the components. In actual fact I found the original fault as well just after removing the resin on the solder side. It was a dry joint on the PCB and quite easy to see and fix if I was going to reuse it.

I have done the same for the 1980 GS about 2 years ago and have drawn up schematics with part values for both of them for my archives.

If I stumble across a 1979 type I will try and get it done as well as they seem to be a bit troublesome.

Some multimeters have a capacitance scale and I used this to measure the values of the capacitors which could not be identified. Its quite doable and just requires some patience and a steady hand

**Guest** · 02-21-2012, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Matchless

If I stumble across a 1979 type I will try and get it done as well as they seem to be a bit troublesome.

To Dale,
OK, here you go, he's speaking from experience here, send him one faulty 1st generation TSCU and maybe he'll unleash the mystery of what's in the epoxy that we can't see.

**Wallowgreen** · 02-21-2012, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by robertbarr

On bikes that came with self-canceling signals, there is some sort of reed switch in the speedo assembly that counts revolutions. That I know; what I need to know is, how many times does that reed switch open & close per wheel revolution? I don't currently have possession of such a bike, or I could check myself.

Robert, I made one for my '79 850. There are 11 pulses from the reed switch per revolution of the wheel.

Thanks for the 38mm intake rings BTW, that was what I needed.

Here's the comments for the conversion to mph in my code:

//-----------------Speed Conversion Constant Calculation-----------------------
// There are 11 counts per revolution of the wheel
// The distance travelled in one revolution of the wheel is 80 inches
// There are 36 inches in one yard
// There are 1760 yards in one mile
// Therefore there are 1760 * 36 = 63,360 inches in one mile
//
// There are 63,360 / 80 = 792 revolutions of the wheel in one mile
//
// Therefore, there are 792 * 11 = 8,712 counts per mile
//
// Next there are 60 * 60 = 3600 seconds per hour
//
// so if we saw 8,712 counts in 3600 seconds, we would be travelling at
// 1 mile per hour
//
// or if we saw 8712 / 3600 = 2.42 counts per second, we would be travelling at
// 1 mile per hour
//
// So for every 2.42 counts per second, we are travelling at 1 additional
// mile per hour.
//
// Starting with counts, here's what we need to do convert to miles per
// hour.
//
// counts per sec * (80/11) * 60 * 60 * (1/36) * (1/1760) = miles per hour
//
//
//
// (80/11) * 60 * 60 * (1/36) * (1/1760) = 0.41322314 conversion factor
//
//
// From above 1 mph = 2.42 counts per second
// 2.42 * 0.41322314 = 0.9999999998 - close enough!
//
// So.... unsigned long tsgulSpeedConversionFactor = 0.41322314;

Good luck!

**sschering** · 02-21-2012, 05:47 PM

Funny.. I was looking at this the other day but using an Arduino nano..

You could even ditch the flasher unit and time the flashes in the code..

Dang it now ya got me looking at the PICAXE chips.. My wife is going to kill me

**robertbarr** · 02-21-2012, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Wallowgreen

Robert, I made one for my '79 850. There are 11 pulses from the reed switch per revolution of the wheel.

Good luck!

Thanks! And it's nice to see that someone else has succeeded at this.

I come up with almost exactly 7 feet per front wheel revolution -- but precision isn't all that essential. We just need the signals to turn off after a reasonable period of time. Cool.

Originally posted by sschering

Funny.. I was looking at this the other day but using an Arduino nano..

You could even ditch the flasher unit and time the flashes in the code..

Dang it now ya got me looking at the PICAXE chips.. My wife is going to kill me

Aww, she shouldn't mind -- a PICAXE costs less than a beer at the tavern! This is the cheapest hobby you'll ever take on! (of course, the hobby has a voracious appetite for your time...).

Yes, the nice thing about this approach is the flexibility. There are no time constants to worry about, no wave-shaping or pulse width measurements to horse around with. The flash rate is infinitely variable and, with a 50-cent phono jack, can be reconfigured with a laptop without removing the unit from the bike.

If you're unhappy with the cancel occurring too early or too late, you can change that easily too. You can even toy with the logic / criteria that determine cancellation.

The PICAXE would simply actuate the coil of a relay. One relay for left, one for right, and we're done. This means we can have 4-way hazards, and we can have front running lights, with ease, and the flash rate is entirely independent of current draw. As in L.E.D.'s...

Hey, if anyone has a known-deceased unit ('80 or later), I could use it. I'll pay the shipping. I need a physical housing / interface with the wiring harness, and a dead unit would be perfect.

Self-cancel seeds a-sproutin'...

Self-cancel seeds a-sproutin'...

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