charging system clarification

[Nhlnms]

hey guys,

fairly new to the forum although i have been poking around for a couple months. i currently own a 78 kz650 and recently purchase an 82 gs1100glz that i could really use some help with. problem is it appears to be over charging. even with the bike idling and the headlight on its at 14v, rev it up and it will jump to 16v..
my first thought was the R/R but after following this trouble shooting guide http://thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfault.htm, im leaning more toward the stator.
so for part "A" everything checked out expect for the fact its charging more than 14.8V. for part "B" the first and second steps check out fine but not the final step. with the meter on AC im getting about about 20V on all 3 wires. the table says to move to part "C" if all 3 are equal and above 60V. this is why thinking stator because theres not enough output but shouldnt that cause the batter to not charge rather than over charge? as for part "C", i got no readings at all for steps 1 and 3 and the correct readings for steps 2 and 4. oh and its a brand new battery as well.

thanks in advance!
jon

[ekabil]

i know one thing: its hard to check a R/R for functionality other than just seeing if it works or not while hooked up on the bike. The diode test only covers half of a R/R's functionality. And, generally I think that too high a voltage is the R/R's problem, too low means a bad stator, bad connections, etc.

Is that 20V AC while the motor is idling? or at 5k RPM? if youre only getting 20V at 5k rpm then yeah the stator is definitely bad. That seems about normal though for idle, at least thats what I was getting after I put in a brand new stator. The three pairs of stator wires should all be very close to each other in voltage as well, inconsistency there means a problem.

There are R/Rs on ebay for less than $50, shipping included, hmm I think the kind you want is shindengen SH541-12 (its a honda one) or if you look around these forums you'll find a chart that someone might very kindly link for you with a list of many R/Rs to look for that will work with our bikes. I have one just like yours.

Good luck, I'm having a tought time getting mine all working right but its nice to learn so much.

[tom203]

I'd redo the AC stator test (maybe check meter also)- if it's only showing 20 volts during this test, the stator will have no output when connected to R/R. Since you are getting 16 volts DC as you rev up , the R/R is the culprit as it's not regulating properly.

[Nessism]

Agree with Tom. You can't have an over volt condition with a bad stator.

The stator wires need to be disconnected from the harness completely before you can check the AC voltage. Rev the engine to 5000 rpm and check between each pair of stator legs - it should be at least 60 volts AC (preferred is 75V+). If you are getting good voltage at the stator, wire the stator DIRECTLY into the R/R, do NOT wire the stator into the old factory harness. Next, make sure your R/R ground goes to a solid frame point or to the battery. Start the engine again and rev to 5000 rpm while checking DC voltage across the battery. If you are getting less than 13.8 volts your R/R is bad (preferred voltage is 14.5V). I don't bother with diode tests since it's inmaterial how the R/R failed; if the system is pumping out good AC voltage, but the R/R isn't doing it's job converting this to DC charging voltage, the R/R must be changed.

[Nhlnms]

thats awesome. thanks for the quick responses guys. when i tested the AC out on the stator i basically just pushed the propes up thru the rubber protectors instead of disconnecting it completely so ill redo that later today and take it from there

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. Nhlnms,

You'll find pictorial guides for all kinds of testing and repair procedures, as well a lot of information in the electrical section, on my little website. Please stop by and help yourself.

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Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. This is what NOT to do: Top 10 Newbie Mistakes. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...



Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

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Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[duaneage]

The best Honda RRs are SH-232 and SH-532. The SH-541 doesn't fit well.
SH-535 works too, it's case is a little smaller and it fits certain models better like the 550T

[Nhlnms]

Got a little bit of an update. So I disconnected the stator completely and got readings of 62V, 62V, and 64V. Wired the stator and R/R direct to each other and it was idling at 13.8V and at 5000 rmp it was at 15V but..... I ran inside for literally 2 minutes and when I checked the meter and it's reading 12.5V and when I rev it up again it just sits there at 12.5V with very very minimal fluctuation. That and I noticed the wires from the R/R are pretty hot. So what next? Still leaning toward a bad R/R?

[Nessism]

Where is the R/R grounded? Did you run a wire direct to the battery or a solid frame point?

[posplayr]

Got a little bit of an update. So I disconnected the stator completely and got readings of 62V, 62V, and 64V. Wired the stator and R/R direct to each other and it was idling at 13.8V and at 5000 rmp it was at 15V but..... I ran inside for literally 2 minutes and when I checked the meter and it's reading 12.5V and when I rev it up again it just sits there at 12.5V with very very minimal fluctuation. That and I noticed the wires from the R/R are pretty hot. So what next? Still leaning toward a bad R/R?

Sounds like you have bad connections. Have you measured the voltage drops as per Phase A revised Stator pages?

Finally STEP #3.) Perform Stator Paper Checks. The stator pages checks are not perfect, but they are designed to help you through a process of elimination in determining what is wrong with your charging system. The good news about doing steps #1 and #2 above first, is that when the stator pages say to check your connections you know you already have done it. Here is the update.

Make sure you do these two tests and report the results for diagnosis.
STEP #2 MEASURE POSITIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP
STEP #3 MEASURE NEGATIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP


Link to Revised PHASE A of Stator Pages:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3970459/stator-papers-phase-a-pdf-may-13-2012-10-43-am-55k?da=y
ORIGINAL_STATOR_PAGES

The most important thing to do checks at 5000 RPM which is typical cruising speed. You might find that you will need to clean your fuse box to get the positive side voltage drops below 0.2V at 5000 RPM. In steps #1 above you should of gotten most of the connections between the R/R(+) to battery (+) in good shape except the fuse box.

[Nhlnms]

so i took the advise of posplyr and followed the "phase A" chart. for step 1 im still charging at around 15V at 25k and 16V at 5k. step 2 was to measure positive lead voltage drop and my results were 0.36V so i checked all the wiring redid the test and got the same results. moving on to step 3 "measuring negative lead voltage drop" at 5k im charging at 0.09V. checked all the negative connections and nothing changed. the R/R is extremely hot to the touch so are we still thinking bad R/R?

[Nhlnms]

oh and the R/R is grounded directly to the battery now

[tom203]

I think all that's left to blame is the R/R, especially since it's hot.

[posplayr]

so i took the advise of posplyr and followed the "phase A" chart. for step 1 im still charging at around 15V at 25k and 16V at 5k. step 2 was to measure positive lead voltage drop and my results were 0.36V so i checked all the wiring redid the test and got the same results. moving on to step 3 "measuring negative lead voltage drop" at 5k im charging at 0.09V. checked all the negative connections and nothing changed. the R/R is extremely hot to the touch so are we still thinking bad R/R?

0.36v on the positive side is too much, you probably have bad connections in the fuse box. If you did the quick test you would like see DC voltage at the battery peak at 2500 RPM and drop some at 5000 RPM.

My ground and positive sides are usually under 0.1V like you have on the negative side. What ever the drops are it is going to take away from the total voltage directly across the battery.

You use Naval jelly to clean the corrosion in the crimps and then solder them to improve the electrical contact and prevent further corrosion.

[Nhlnms]

checked all the connections in the fuse box too. took out all the fuses and sprayed it down with electrical cleaner and then used electrical grease