1982 GS1100GL starting issues

[ekabil]

Finally got the charging system working, getting decent voltage but I am going to optimize it by cleaning it tomorrow. The trick was to make good solid connections and don't wire the RR straight to the battery, I just hooked it in to where the original one would have gone, and all of a sudden Im getting 13-14 volts. So niceeeee. I swear I tried that before but hey if it works I'm not going to question it.

Anyway, now it doesn't want to start. Keep in mind, the battery hasn't been able to be charged correctly for about a two week period, and it was jumped many times. Only three days ago did I get a trickle charger, but I heard bike batteries are fickle so maybe its that. Two month old, regular lead and H2SO4 battery from advance.

The bike will start after a full trickle charge, and rarely after riding (trips from 10 mins to 30 mins long), usually I have been push starting. It just cranks so slowly.

I have been looking around and there is so much information on the charging system, but not many threads on the ignition system. I thought it was just the battery, but now that the charging system is working and I have recharged the battery, where should I start to find out why its so slow cranking? Its really slow, I mean even off a freshly charged battery the first crank sounds like its nearly dead. I feel lucky when it does start because it sounds so weak trying to start it seems like it never could. I measured the voltage drop on the battery:
at key off: 12.5-12.6
at key on: 12.1-12.2
press start button: 10V
after a few tries, maybe 4 or 5 cranks, the voltage drops below 10, even to 7 or 8 (this is while cranking). Once released, it jumps back up to 12.

Also, I noticed that sometimes when the start button is depressed, it cranks and then goes silent, and when I let go of the starter button, it will turn over once. A few times I have remembered and caught in time, giving it throttle just at this moment which will bring the bike to life. Once the bike is running everything is normal.

What should I start testing?

Note 1: when hooked up to a car battery, the cranking is strong and fast (Sad to say I had to do it with the car running a couple times, back before I had a battery charger. I know its bad, but there wasn't another way to get it running to do tests)

Note 2: after I had run the battery way down trying to start, to the point that it would turn once quietly and not again, I hooked the battery (about 12V at this point) up to my charger (1.5 amp), and in only one hour the voltage on the battery was over 13V! Is this normal? Three days ago I charged the battery from below 12V and it took 5 or 6 hours.

[ekabil]

sorry to bump my own thread but I found this from the ignition system checklist on BikeCliff's site:

"Again measure directly across the battery, but pull off the spark plug leads to prevent engine from firing and swing with starter. While starter is turning the voltage should stay at least above 11 Volt. Also swing the starter with the headlights on to see that the voltage does not drop significantly at the coils while the starter plus headlights load the battery, which could prove that even if your battery is fully charged, it cannot give full or sufficient current and is on its way out or your starter may be drawing excess current (usually unlikely if starter is spinning at full speed) and pulling the battery down. If it drops much lower, charge battery fully or have it load tested and replaced if faulty."

This is definitely what is happening. Today, with battery at 12.5 volts after resting all night, the voltage dropped to 9 volts while trying to start. When let off the button, voltage went back up to 12.31V and stopped. Then I tried to start it again and it did start. The starter was cranking real slow both times though.

So how do I tell between the things in bold up there? How do I tell a bad battery from a starter drawing too much current? If the battery passes the load test at an auto parts store, does that mean for sure that its good? I almost want it to fail their test so I can return it and get the gel battery I should have bought in the first place.

I noticed that at idle with a little choke the battery was at about 14 volts, and with no choke it was still 13ish (which are good), but once I turned it off, it falls to 12.8 and steadily decreases. Eventually it reaches 12.5 or 12.6 and stays there, because anytime I start the bike after any length of time it reads that voltage before turning the key to on. Is that normal? It seems like it could be higher.

A few days ago I had to use a car battery to jump and the starter cranked beautifully - fast and everything. Does this mean its definitely something wrong with my battery or is it still possible that the starter is drawing too much current? How

[tom203]

The choke can only be effecting the idle speed- no choke, idle drops a tad, so voltage drops a tad.Once you turn ignition off (no charging), battery voltage falls off to battery's rest voltage.
Dropping to 9 volts during cranking means either a weak battery or a starter thats drawing too much current.A car battery wouldn't care if the bike's starter drew more current.
I vote for weak battery

[ekabil]

yea thats my main question is how to tell if its the starter drawing too much vs the battery not providing enough

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Start with a known good battery. Have yours load tested, make sure it's fully charged. You can also pull the starter and visually inspect it, make sure the brushes are in good shape and the commutator is clean, etc.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[ekabil]

Had the battery tested. Its the generic Advance brand (auto craft or something), and Advance tested and said its fine but another "power sports" type dealership tested it, and said it threw a bad cell. Who do I trust, right. So I convinced the Advance store I got it from to let me return it and pay the difference to get a AGM gel battery.

I put that in and push the starter and........still s l o w. So it wasn't the battery. At least I know that now. As far as the starter though, what are the odds that its just a bad connection? I recently installed a new stator, and in the process may have disturbed the wire going to the starter. Is it possible that a bad connection can cause slow cranking? Seems like a bad connection would keep it from cranking all together. I thought connections are an all-or-nothing type of principle.

Solenoid checks out by the way, cranks slow even if solenoid is shorted. And the bike has less than 14,000 miles on it, so there's a very slim chance that anything inside the starter is actually worn down. On monday I am going to try to clean up the connection and see what happens, but if you all can tell me if that is even a possible cause of the slow-cranking symptom....

[cowboyup3371]

I can't say anything other than check things out. But have you also done a valve adjustment yet?

[ekabil]

No. I'm learning as things break down. Although once the bike is started it runs really well. Do valves have some way of affecting the starting process but not the ignition process?

[cowboyup3371]

I would just make sure you follow all recommended maintenance that Basscliff has in your welcome package

[ekabil]

Now that I have a new battery, shorting the solenoid does make it crank like normal. When the start button is pressed, however, nothing happens. Silence.

One minute the start button makes it crank slow, then all of sudden it does nothing. If there's no click at the solenoid, but shorting the terminals cranks the engine and starts the bike (with clutch pulled in) that means it probably isn't the solenoid. Could a sketchy start button assembly be causing this? I did used to have to mess with the button to make it crank right but didn't think it was that bad. I am going to take it apart and look at it.

pretty rainy today unfortunately

Edit/Followup:
Due to the sporadic nature of the starting, I took apart the starter button switch. Much cleaning was done, although the main problem (I believe) was the button itself. The red plastic was causing the screw inside it to tilt, and therefore it made poor contact with the brass if at all. So, I put a bunch of superglue down in the button, then replaced the screw and kept it straight for a few minutes. In the meantime, the killswitch contacts were scrubbed clean with a steel brush and contact cleaner, as well as any other connections I could find in there. A q-tip heavily sprayed with contact cleaner was indispensable in cleaning the very small contacts within the switch. Once everything was put back together, the bike started up several times in a row and rode nice!

The real test is tomorrow, when I will actually have to use the bike to get somewhere.