Paper-ing my Stator: Or... Electricity confuses me

[Steve]

Nice pics! My gut tells me that's a very sloppy winding job- I wonder who does this for Rick's these days. Steve is getting some stators rewound- maybe he can post a pic of what his guy is doing so we can compare.

Your wish is granted.



NOTE: This is NOT a stock photo from anybody's website or catalog, it is a stator that I received, and it's sitting on one of my dirty micro-fiber cloths.

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[tom203]

That side looks good (neat and tight), but Roostabunny needs to see other side ! Thanks

[Steve]

I'll flip it over and shoot it when I get home this evening.

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[tom203]

I'll flip it over and shoot it when I get home this evening.

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Somehow I figured you would! thanks
I see Caltric has dropped their stator price to $60 with free shipping

[eil]

I am jumping into this late, with a question:

Leg-->Leg PASS
80
80
80

Leg-->ground What the?
40
40
40

That last set of numbers, are those volts? Are you trying to measure voltage between the stator legs and ground? The three stator windings have absolutely no relation to chassis/engine ground and any voltage readings taken like this are nonsense. You want to instead measure resistance. With the engine off and the stator disconnected from the R/R. You should get an open circuit (infinite resistance) between any of the three stator legs and ground. Anything else means there's a path for current to flow from the stator to ground which implies a damaged stator or wire.

But even if there's no short to ground, it's possible you could still have a bad stator. I just don't know how you can be getting 80v across all legs and not be charging the battery unless the R/R or some wiring somewhere is bad. I agree with posplayr that it would be a good idea to verify the accuracy of your multimeter.

[Roostabunny]

I'll flip it over and shoot it when I get home this evening.

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Thanks, Steve, for the shot and the future other shot.


As a general update, two things...

1.) I ordered the Polaris 4012941 R/R and will install when it arrives. Since I'll end up with a super-deluxe charging system at the end of this oddyssey (and I've got a stylin' new crimper), I'll be sure to replace the rest of those heated connectors while I'm at it.

2.) Got confirmation that the Rick's folks got my email and that techs were looking at the info I sent. Waiting to hear back.

[posplayr]

I am jumping into this late, with a question:



That last set of numbers, are those volts? Are you trying to measure voltage between the stator legs and ground? The three stator windings have absolutely no relation to chassis/engine ground and any voltage readings taken like this are nonsense. You want to instead measure resistance. With the engine off and the stator disconnected from the R/R. You should get an open circuit (infinite resistance) between any of the three stator legs and ground. Anything else means there's a path for current to flow from the stator to ground which implies a damaged stator or wire.

But even if there's no short to ground, it's possible you could still have a bad stator. I just don't know how you can be getting 80v across all legs and not be charging the battery unless the R/R or some wiring somewhere is bad. I agree with posplayr that it would be a good idea to verify the accuracy of your multimeter.

It is not nonsense it means there is a short to ground? If you had a perfectly good stator, what do you think happens if you short one of the legs to case ground? Do you think you will see voltage between chassis and any other leg? You sure will.

[tom203]

It is not nonsense it means there is a short to ground? If you had a perfectly good stator, what do you think happens if you short one of the legs to case ground? Do you think you will see voltage between chassis and any other leg? You sure will.

This is what happenned to my previous stator- it "leaked" to ground, ohms checked out OK, but it could barely deliver 13 volts running. I ran it about 12 hours like this- it didn't get worse, but I knew it was sick.

[Steve]

OK, I am home, pictures are shot.





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[eil]

It is not nonsense it means there is a short to ground? If you had a perfectly good stator, what do you think happens if you short one of the legs to case ground? Do you think you will see voltage between chassis and any other leg? You sure will.

In the case of a perfectly healthy system, any voltage readings between a leg on the stator and ground are nonsense because the stator is electrically isolated from every single other part of the bike, including ground, except for the three wires going into the R/R and the circuit inside the R/R itself. A much more scientific and fool-proof test is to check for continuity between the stator and engine. (Bearing in mind of course, that a faulty stator may only "short" to ground when warm or at higher RPMs.)

If the stator is connected to the R/R while testing, then what you're really seeing is part of the R/R circuitry, which isn't helpful unless you understand how the R/R circuits work and given that the input and outputs are so easy to test on their own.

Now if the stator is disconnected... and a leg on the stator has continuity to ground, you would see 0V on one leg (or close to it), and the other two would read 80V. The only way I can see getting a reading of 40V across all three is if the center tap of the stator (which is not connected to the R/R) is connected to ground. And I've never seen a charging system schematic that showed the center tap connected to anything. If this happened, would it interfere with the workings of the R/R? I honestly don't know.

[posplayr]

In the case of a perfectly healthy system, any voltage readings between a leg on the stator and ground are nonsense because the stator is electrically isolated from every single other part of the bike, including ground, except for the three wires going into the R/R and the circuit inside the R/R itself. A much more scientific and fool-proof test is to check for continuity between the stator and engine. (Bearing in mind of course, that a faulty stator may only "short" to ground when warm or at higher RPMs.)

If the stator is connected to the R/R while testing, then what you're really seeing is part of the R/R circuitry, which isn't helpful unless you understand how the R/R circuits work and given that the input and outputs are so easy to test on their own.

Now if the stator is disconnected... and a leg on the stator has continuity to ground, you would see 0V on one leg (or close to it), and the other two would read 80V. The only way I can see getting a reading of 40V across all three is if the center tap of the stator (which is not connected to the R/R) is connected to ground. And I've never seen a charging system schematic that showed the center tap connected to anything. If this happened, would it interfere with the workings of the R/R? I honestly don't know.

You failed to read my post, which means you failed to grasp the diagnostic capability of the test method. The leg to ground tests at 5K RPM has been established as probably one of the best diagnostic measurement for determining failed stators.

Your statement above is also incorrect and can be confirmed with a simple circuit analysis. You can put one short any where an any of the three legs and it will not have any bearing on the VAC outputs. Again draw yourself a circuit.

By the way, I have never seen a voltmeter register "Nonsense", is that a special kind of meter? Could you elaborate on what that means?

[robertbarr]

OK, I am home, pictures are shot.



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Wow, those are gorgeous for home - rolled. Includes a grommet, and connectors, even. Have you dialed in a price yet?

[850GT_Rider]

OK, I am home, pictures are shot.





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I've got the carcass of the OE stator I pulled off of mine. How much for a rewind?

[Steve]

Wow, those are gorgeous for home - rolled. Includes a grommet, and connectors, even. Have you dialed in a price yet?

Wish I could take credit for the work, but I send them out to a guy who does this for a living.

Price? See below.

I've got the carcass of the OE stator I pulled off of mine. How much for a rewind?

I have the second batch out for rewinding right now. Once they get back, I will be "hanging my shingle" for rewound stators.

For now, I am thinking that the price will be $85, shipped to your door.

If that's not quite enough, I will be happy to "adjust".

Of course, this will be on an "exchange" basis, but I hope to have a few stators on-hand to minimize turn-around time.
Exchanges will be tracked, but I hope to keep them on an honor system, so I don't have to go through the hassle of a core charge.

If you would like to send a stator to be rewound, send me a PM or an e-mail for arrangements.


I would also like to ask if anyone else has any dead stators they would like to donate to the project.
I would be happy to pay shipping costs for items donated to the project, but exchange units are on your "dime".

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[tom203]

That's a nice looking rewind job! I'll donate some BBQ ones , I'm a good recycler and need to clean out my stash.