Hot Starting / Charging Issues

[Guest]

I have a 1980 GS1000E that I am having trouble with. I have put 2 new batteries in this bike and continue to have the same problem. I'm not much of an electrical guru at all. When I have a new battery, the bike turns over pretty decent when it's cold. However, when I get the bike hot, stop somewhere, and then go to start the bike, it has a tough time turning over. Sometimes it won't turn over at all. I'm not sure if this is a battery, starter, or charging system problem. I'm hoping you guys can get me going in the right direction?

[hampshirehog]

Probably worn starter motor brushes or a dirty armature.

Or a bad earth.

[spyug]

Welcome. It sounds like you have at least a couple of problems. Hard starting is usually as a result of valves that are not properly adjusted. You didn't say it but I suspect the bike is new to you so you likely don't know the last time the valves were adjusted. It is a common issue and often over looked. I would suggest you find a copy of the manual for the bike and review how a valve adjustment is done. I believe there is also a very good tutorial on Cliff's site which you can follow.

The additional issue would appear to be with the electrical system and it seems that 2 things may be happening here 1) the bike may not be charging and replenishing the battery 2) there is a lot of resistance in the ignition circuit (dirty and or corroded connectors) that don't allow sufficient voltage to both power the starter motor and fire the coils. Also very common issues and addressed in the Stator Papers tutorial and fault finding flow chart (found on the main page).

You may also have issues with the carbs that can affect what's going on but lets worry about these two issues first.

I would start by cleaning up all the electrical connectors form the battery, through the fuse block and down to the coils. You should then test voltage. First resting voltage at the battery, then with key turned on, down at the coil. Hopefully there will be less than 1 volt of a variance. If its more, it will indicate that your coils will not put out a healthy spark which makes firing difficult. To do these tests you will, of course, require a digital multimeter which you can find at almost all automotive and or hardware stores.

There is a lot more that will need doing to determine the health of the charging system and to do that you need the engine to fire and run easily so lets concentrate on this first.

Once you've cleaned up the ignition then you will have to adjust the valves. You cannot ignore or skip this as the valves control compression. If the compression is low due to partially open valves, no amount of healthy spark or lots of gas is going to cause combustion. Remember its fuel, spark and compression you need for combustion.

Lots to do but its not really hard just a bit confusing at first. Take it one step at a time. The information is all here just follow it step by step.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

[Steve]

Where are you in oHIo?

You might be close enough for a visit.

.

[tkent02]

Be careful how you word your questions. In some places, "It won't turn over" means the starter won't rotate the engine at all. In other's it means it won't idle. And in other places it means it won't fire.

I'm sure it means even more things in more places, we have members from just about everywhere on here.

[spyug]

Very good point from Mr. Tkent02. The replies can go off in all different directions as you can see from Hampshire's reply and mine. If you can be more precise, it will help immensely.

On another note, Mr. Steve's offer should be jumped on if you can arrange it. As one of the acknowledged "gurus" you will get knowledge and experience second to none. He will definitely point you in the right direction and likely help you get on your way too with some wrench twirling.

Good luck with it.

[bsward423]

Ok well that was a lot of info in a short amount of time!! First of all, I'm in Newton Falls, OH which is between Akron and Youngstown. I see that Steve is in Southwest Ohio. That probably doesn't help me out haha. I've had the bike now for about three years. I bought it with a brand new top end kit put in it before me, a 1075cc kit if I'm not mistaking. I have receipts. It did not have this problem until last spring. I then let it sit all summer as I was busy with dirt bikes instead. Now, I want to get this thing back on the road where it should be. It only has 20,000 miles. I did not even think about the wording of the question. What I meant was, the starter tends to crank the engine over slowly after it is hot, and sometimes will not at all. Once I can actually get the bike running, it idles great. However, I did not even consider the valves. I think you are correct spyug, that the valves will surely need adjusted. It wouldn't hurt. I still believe that there is an electrical issue as previously stated. I agree that a great first step would be to clean all of the terminals. I have the tank, side panels, and tail section off of the bike now, so this would be the time to do that. Are you guys thinking that I may also have a regulator/rectifier issue possibly?

[Steve]

Ok well that was a lot of info in a short amount of time!!

What do you mean, "short amount of time"?

That took almost an hour and a half.

I'm in Newton Falls, OH which is between Akron and Youngstown. I see that Steve is in Southwest Ohio. That probably doesn't help me out haha.

Don't laugh too hard, there. I have been known to travel a bit farther than that to do a weekend project, but that was when I was traveling for work anyway. I used to travel to help out other GSers on the weekends to avoid boredom. You are still within "striking range", though. I might be up your way (Solon) in February, for a couple of weeks. Don't want to get bored on that weekend, either.

It did not have this problem until last spring. I then let it sit all summer as I was busy with dirt bikes instead. Now, I want to get this thing back on the road where it should be.

Sounds a bit like the carbs might need to be cleaned, too. Full "strip-and-dip" time, with all new o-rings.

Once I can actually get the bike running, it idles great. However, I did not even consider the valves. I think you are correct spyug, that the valves will surely need adjusted.

According to the factory manual, they need to be checked every 4,000 miles or so.
Tight valves will mainly affect COLD starting, but they certainly don't help anything by being tight.

I still believe that there is an electrical issue as previously stated. I agree that a great first step would be to clean all of the terminals. ... Are you guys thinking that I may also have a regulator/rectifier issue possibly?

It's quite possible, but it might also be as simple as cleaning all the connectors and making SURE you have a good ground on the R/R.

.

[bsward423]

Steve, thank you for the answers. I believe I will start by checking the valves and cleaning the carbs and connectors. Once I get that far, we'll see what she does. I'm half tempted to stip this thing down to the frame and do it right....

[Steve]

Have you been given your "keys to the library"?

The "library" is BassCliff's 'little' website.

Your "key" is your official Mega-Welcome.

In the library, you will find the Mikuni BS Carb Cleaning Guide.

Do NOT take shortcuts. Every shortcut you take is just one more time you will be removing the carbs to do them over.

.

[bsward423]

I had not been given my "keys"! Thank you for your help. I'm already loving this forum. And to think I almost sold this thing...