Chasing my electrical problems on my GS450

[dennco2]

I have to go with the diagrams I have handy but ....

I have a sneaking suspicion the Orange and the White/Black stripe will be your front brake light switch. The diagram I have shows these to be Orange and White wires.
SO! plug the White/Bk male into the white female and the Orange into Orange.

Brown should be for your tailight. It often has an extra input for a front parking light UNUSED in Canada and the US. But I haven't seen one like yours if it has two female connectors. You could use it for running lights.

Black/white stripe is Always "Ground"...that is, it eventually gets attached to the frame of the bike and gets "Negative" from the battery through it's big "ground strap" .
You have the turn signals correctly connected-indeed they have a double female ground.

The single female ground is looking for a mate? Well, it might be the ground for the" Not-used In Canada/US-Front parking lamp"...I'd have to pull up a Euro or UK diagram to see if I'm right

Right you are Gorminrider about the orange/white black being the front brake light switch wires. I also had the 2 all black single male connectors from the front turn signals connected to the double light green and double black female connectors. There was no double light blue wires but I did see a double brown you mention .... but didn't use it. Should I swap from the double black to the double brown? Anyway, my tail and brake light ... and my turn signals work fine now as is connected. I think I have all wires connected up properly in the bucket ... with a spare bl/white connector.

Anyway, with your advice I got to the point where I started to mount the headlight reflector ... and succeeded after several attempts to fit all together. Then I tried to start the engine. After several failed attempts the engine started to pop a bit ... but when I let off thumb pressure on the starter button .... the starter motor continued to crank the engine as had happened last year!! I turned off the ignition switch and the starter continued cranking. Finally I was able to disconnect the neg side of battery to STOP it.

This nasty issue seems to be an intermittent problem .... and Not acceptable as is. Can someone remind me what I am doing wrong? Time for me to also go back on an old thread to see what was said then. This bike has been a hard one to restore.

[Gorminrider]

double black is correct!! My mistake.Brain Fart Light blue on your bike should bring blinking power from turn relay to handlebar switch and thereby sent to double lightgreen and double black. (my excuse....my Honda uses light blue as turn)

Double brown... test my theory. Turn your Key to PARK. Put positive voltmeter probe to brown, negative voltmeter probe to Ground on the frame. You should see 12-13volts. Key to Off- nothing. Key to Run, again, it's got power.
OR use a "test light". (a small 12volt bulb with a couple of wires attached) It should light when key turned to PARK.

Your starter trouble... your solenoid is stuck. BUT it's not neccesarily it's fault. The easy suspect is starter button. Too easy. so 'll be back in a minute...

[Gorminrider]

Ok here's a diagram I made of just the starter circuit. There are no other wires involved.
03starter.jpg

Uploading better image is a bit of a nuisance here but right-click, save as should download it to a computer and you can zoom in a bit...otherwise, clutch safety switch is at bottom of image, starter button is at top, solenoid and starter motor is top right. It's really pretty simple...The Black/white stripe ground for this circuiit is ONLY at the solenoid. Of course the starter motor has no ground wire being grounded through bike frame ...

Plainly, the yellow/green stripe wire is the easy one to check out ...note that you can "play" with it at the clutch safety switch-there are bullet connectors there so it's easy to access for trouble shooting....that is, disconnect there and and apply positive 12 volts and your solenoid will engage (and motor will spin but you can disconnect starter motor and listen for solid click as solenoid moves...click click click as you touch 12v to the wire) . That would quickly test for starter Button issue. ...
If not a button issue... well try fiddlin with this first.

[dennco2]

I still have to open up the clutch and throttle housings to inspect and clean.

Meanwhile I tried again to start the engine but was only getting a few "popps" out of it. Then I realized I had 1 spark wire off. After more attempts to start, my solenoid crapped out again and got stuck in the start motor position ... so I had to pull the neg side of battery off again.to stop it. Then I gave the battery a charge and today attempted to get another start. As soon as I made contact with the cable connector to the neg batt terminal, it tried to start the engine ... so my assumption is the starter solenoid is stuck and needs to be replaced. Am I correct? The starter button coil spring seems fine and is pushing the button away from contact when thumb pressure is released.. So my assumption is for ime to shop for a new solenoid .... on Ebay, etc?

[sam000lee]

Easy to test if the solenoid is stuck on - disconnect the starter and the wire going to the button. Short the "button terminal" to the battery and see if it clicks. You could remove a turn signal or something, ground it and connect the other lead to the solenoid starter motor output. See if it lights up/turns off.
You could also disconnect the leads going to/from the battery and test those with a multimeter to make sure it's not stuck on.

[Gorminrider]

I still have to open up the clutch and throttle housings to inspect and clean.

Meanwhile I tried again to start the engine but was only getting a few "popps" out of it. Then I realized I had 1 spark wire off. After more attempts to start, my solenoid crapped out again and got stuck in the start motor position ... so I had to pull the neg side of battery off again.to stop it. Then I gave the battery a charge and today attempted to get another start. As soon as I made contact with the cable connector to the neg batt terminal, it tried to start the engine ... so my assumption is the starter solenoid is stuck and needs to be replaced. Am I correct? The starter button coil spring seems fine and is pushing the button away from contact when thumb pressure is released.. So my assumption is for ime to shop for a new solenoid .... on Ebay, etc?

Sure, solenoids do fail, and a new one could be the answer but even so, why not be sure?
Don't make assumptions-find out. Simplest for you is to take the solenoid off and "bench test" it before you run off to buy things...because stuff like "starter button coil spring seems fine and is pushing the button away from contact when thumb pressure is released.." is not a help to me to tell you you are "correct" .
Reading literally, (which I must) just tells me the spring is fine but not that the circuit is also opening and closing...the posts above and below yours both try to describe simple tests to find out if the solenoid is the likely problem. You can, for instance, disconnect the yellow green wire at the connectors when solenoid sticks. There are several places to do this shown in the diagram. But, interesting is that you haven't mentioned the clutch lever safety switch, which is a red flag. It has been disabled OR mis-connected etc...

[dennco2]

I have read and printed out your responses ... so I can go to my bike tomorrow and attempt to accomplish the tests and the solution. You mention the clutch lever safety switch and that is what I will look into tomorrow as well. The last time I attempted to start the engine, I noticed I could engage the starter without pulling the clutch handle ... where as before I had to???.

I am having a hard time with your starter circuit diagram due to the low quality fuzzy image ... so I tried to find it in the GS resources but found a different diagram for the GS450 on GSR. Then my repair manual wiring diagram looks different as well .... not laid out the same, but I can read it. I was hoping to find the exact GSR diagram you used ... and then be able to zoom in for more clarity. I do have a basic understanding of the starting circuit but now I know it also includes the clutch lever.

[Gorminrider]

Dennco2, check your "PMs". I sent you a link a few days ago.

[dennco2]

Today warned up to 54 ... so I finally got out to try the suggestions and sort out why my starter is engaged all the time and won't release. On the solenoid, I disconnected the starter connection and the yellow/green wire to the starter button. Then I shorted the button terminal to the battery .... and yes I got clicks out of the solenoid! It clicks with key on or key off. So that means the solenoid is good .... and I have to look elsewhere.

I also pulled the connection right under the clutch lever to clean what appeared to be 2 small brass bars. Further inspection is needed, as I have not found the clutch safety switch you mention with connector pins. I pulled the light switch housing apart and only removed 2 steel plates to clean .... as that was all I saw to come apart in there. I pulled the starter switch and kill button housing apart on the right handle bar to inspect again. Previously I had cleaned the starter button contacts.I also torqued down on the ground strap from battery to engine case. So at this point, I am uncertain how to proceed. EDIT: I need to go back in there to inspect and test for power.

I am wondering if I miss-connected something in the headlight bucket when changing the old bulb headlight to the new bucket and H4 headlight system? The 1985 bike has never allowed me to start the engine without depressing the clutch first. Then after the headlight swap, that feature did not work and I could start without pulling the clutch handle. And the latest problem is ... after cranking for a long time to get started, the starter wouldn't stop cranking when I let go the button. 2 weeks ago that issue forced me to disconnect the battery ground to stop the starter and today I just touched the negative connector to the battery terminal ..... and the starter motor kicked in gear again .... so I had to pull the ground connector off immediately.

I think when I get this problem solved ... my bike will be operational again!

[dennco2]

After reading some previous posts again, later today I will go back to the yellow and green wire and the starter button connection to see if I can find the problem .... and report back what I find. After looking at the starter wiring diagrams longer ... it's making a little more sense to me.

So far I have noticed the yellow/green wire looks compromised with a small area of bare wire right before the white connector plug to the solenoid. Also, if may be totally different issue but a few weeks ago, there was a spark and bad short created when I shoved the battery back in the battery box .... so I will look for exposed wire on the positive side of the battery.

[Gorminrider]

what appeared to be 2 small brass bars

That is what's left of the clutch safety switch. It's gone...

Originally the yellow/green stripe wire was" broken" along the way to the solenoid, with male and female bullet ends that connected to the clutch safety switch. find the two yellow/green stripe ends and connect them together or a previous owner has done this already....no more clutch safety unless you find a good replacement.

and yes I got clicks out of the solenoid! It clicks with key on or key off. So that means the solenoid is good .... and I have to look elsewhere.

not exactly yet. That means the magnetic coil is ok unless you found that the "motor staying on problem" is also gone. Try the same with starter motor connected OR
To be really sure:
Do this with Key off so bike motor will not "run" but it will turn over. This will take any possibility of confused wiring out of the equation. Disconnect all bullet connectors to the yellow/green and Just use a short piece of wire from the big Battery terminal on the solenoid touched to the place where the yellow/green stripe wire is soldered on.(Or to the wire itself.) If the starter motor sticks On, you need a new solenoid...this kind of failure would be pretty rare but I would satisfy myself.

If it "works ok" and stops spinning motor when "untouched" then yes, it IS your wiring or your starter button.

[dennco2]

Today my Suzuki gave me a little happiness!

Today I removed the starter solenoid and cleaned up around the 2 mounting bolts and remounted. I reattached all 4 wires. I checked the positive battery connector and found that IT was semi loose!!! So I bolted it down and also the neg terminal connector and attempted a start. The starter circuit performed flawlessly .... several times. Does having a semi loose battery connection explain any of the problems I have had to deal with?? Now, it appears all is well with the starting system, but time will tell.

I was eventually able to start the engine for the 1st time in about 7 months. It took a while to get fuel to the engine and would only idle at first. After warm up it would rev up but very slow to return to idle. Last summer the engine returned to idle quite quickly and predictably. I took it for a 2 mile ride and it ran very well with good power. I will take it for a longer ride tomorrow to see how it performs and try to gain confidence in the bike again. I know a hanging idle issue is in another sector of the GSR.

I took a picture of the underside of the clutch handle .... for confirmation the safety switch has been removed by previous owner?

clutch1.jpg

[mavrik]

when the starter stays on check for power on the yellow / green wire... if there is power there then your start button or that circuit is the problem, if no power on the yellow / green wire then the solenoid is sticking ... it's that simple...

[2BRacing]

......I took a picture of the underside of the clutch handle .... for confirmation the safety switch has been removed by previous owner?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54202[/ATTACH]

No, the clutch safety switch is still there. Follow the wires into the headlight bucket to see if the ends are connected into the loom, or have been disconnected there and the loom wires joined together to cut the switch out.

clutch safety switch.jpg

[Gorminrider]

Does having a semi loose battery connection explain any of the problems I have had to deal with?

nope. I see you do have at least part of the clutch safety switch. I think you've already had it apart

I also pulled the connection right under the clutch lever to clean what appeared to be 2 small brass bars

Did you manage to lose the tiny spring and copper "U" inside there? oh well.