Best Regulator/Rectifier for use with Lithium Battery

[Guest]

Hi Guys,

Looking for input on which R/R to choose with Lithium Ion Phosphate batter.

Rick's Motosport Electrics new Lithium battery compatible(14-223H) model has a setpoint of 14.2v and has a very steady charge rate needed by these batteries. It is a Mosfet style with a slightly larger heat sink than their oem model.

I emailed Compufire today to get some info on the 55402 3-phase series R/R. I was informed by return email that it also has a setpoint of 14.2v. The email said nothing about how steady the charge rate was or if they recommend them for use with Lithium batteries.

The Compufire, I believe would be a better unit if it is Lithium battery compatible.

Does anyone here know if it is, or have any experience with it?

Thanks

[Steve]

I don't have anything to offer on regulator selection, as I do know that Lithium batteries require a different charge curve than lead-acid batteries.

My curiosity, though, is: what is your reason for choosing a Lithium battery?

.

[Dogma]

Do you mean a lithium iron phosphate battery? What I'm reading is saying they don't need a complex charge controller like lithium ion batteries, but I didn't see anything in my quick search about other special needs they may have.

[Rob S.]

I just tried doing some internet research on lithium iron phosphate vs AGM. I hardly understood anything I was reading. Something about an AGM being able to discharge to 80% vs 50% for lithium, also being three times lighter than AGM. The writer was talking about marine applications, by the way. Also, he included lead acid in the AGM category.

As spring approaches, I'll be replacing the liquid ("Everstart from Walmart") battery in my Suzi with a mid-priced (Motobatt?) AGM. Any better route to go?

Also, are the liquid (lead acid?) batteries still being made for bikes? If so, what are their advantages? Are they cheaper, do they last longer or put out more power? I can't imagine they could be lighter than any other type of battery.

i'm old school all the way. I don't cotton to radiators and plenty of the other advances that have been made. In my day, every battery was a wet Yuasa with six cells that needed topping off, and a vent tube that exited right in front of the rear tire. Or became dislodged from the battery and corroded the entire area.

But I have no fond memories of wet batteries. Good riddance, I say!

[Guest]

unless you are shaving every ounce, lipo or life aren't worth the cost/hassle curve. in my opinion. maybe some more info on your application?

[Guest]

One of the guys on the Suzuki two stroke forum bought a lithium battery for a cafe build that was nearly completed. He managed to ruin the battery before finishing the build.


Unless you need to save that last smidgen of space+weight on your build, why spend a lot more for a battery that is easier for you to ruin?

For my money, a MotoBatt AGM is close to the sweet spot for $$$ vs quality vs performance.




Its also worth noting that forum members either overhaul the wiring or do the relay mod so that the 14.2V at the voltage regulator doesn?t produce 15V or more at the battery.

[Gorminrider]

...Rick's Motosport Electrics new Lithium battery compatible(14-223H) model has a setpoint of 14.2v and has a very steady charge rate needed by these batteries
....I emailed Compufire today to get some info on the 55402 3-phase series R/R. I was informed by return email that it also has a setpoint of 14.2v. The email said nothing about how steady the charge rate was or if they recommend them for use with Lithium batteries.

I'd say go with the "Rick's". As good as it may be, the Compufire is not intended for lithium batteries unless you can find a lithium type battery that matches the less-sensitive characteristics of lead-sulfuric acid batteries...a setpoint of 14.2 says nothing about the current that is wanted to reach that setpoint. With lithium types, it's a little more involved than just a steady current. The current itself needs control. Also, lithium types "talk" to their charging circuit. There are more feedback loops... This includes their temperature, for instance.

are the liquid (lead acid?) batteries still being made for bikes? If so, what are their advantages?

Im no expert but I've herded many a battery to a premature death...subsequent reading has left these impressions

Sealed, Sealed AGM batteries,and plain-jane batteries with the overflow tube are all sponge lead plates in a diluted sulfuric acid ...
The "Advanced Glass Matt" ideally resists sulfation that either piles up under the plates or distorts the sponge-lead plates by putting matt between the plates. I suppose it's some protection from deep discharge cycles while maintaining a good starting current versus real "Deep Cycle" batteries.

Both these sealed batteries are just that-sealed.. some gassing off during recharge is recondensed. BUT they must have some emergency venting to prevent explosion in an overcharge situation....and there's no way to replace fluid lost.
so AGM and Sealed are both a little more touchy than the plain jane leaky one in that sense.
Also, they still can't tolerate being left around uncharged (but AGM likely recovers better) nor "overcharge" that such a deep discharge invites without good regulation.


this is NOT so much a concern on the "old style unsealed vented battery" . It's a maintenance task. But the modern trend has long been moving away from the user taking any granular responsibility. AND who wants acid spilling out of an overfilled or dropped bike.
but whichever-(and there's gell-cells too) as they get more Modern+Wonderful, so does the accompanying circuitry to recharge them. Every "feature" has a cost.

[posplayr]

I'd say go with the "Rick's". As good as it may be, the Compufire is not intended for lithium batteries unless you can find a lithium type battery that matches the less-sensitive characteristics of lead-sulfuric acid batteries...a setpoint of 14.2 says nothing about the current that is wanted to reach that setpoint. With lithium types, it's a little more involved than just a steady current. The current itself needs control. Also, lithium types "talk" to their charging circuit. There are more feedback loops... This includes their temperature, for instance.




Im no expert but I've herded many a battery to a premature death...subsequent reading has left these impressions

Sealed, Sealed AGM batteries,and plain-jane batteries with the overflow tube are all sponge lead plates in a diluted sulfuric acid ...
The "Advanced Glass Matt" ideally resists sulfation that either piles up under the plates or distorts the sponge-lead plates by putting matt between the plates. I suppose it's some protection from deep discharge cycles while maintaining a good starting current versus real "Deep Cycle" batteries.

Both these sealed batteries are just that-sealed.. some gassing off during recharge is recondensed. BUT they must have some emergency venting to prevent explosion in an overcharge situation....and there's no way to replace fluid lost.
so AGM and Sealed are both a little more touchy than the plain jane leaky one in that sense.
Also, they still can't tolerate being left around uncharged (but AGM likely recovers better) nor "overcharge" that such a deep discharge invites without good regulation.


this is NOT so much a concern on the "old style unsealed vented battery" . It's a maintenance task. But the modern trend has long been moving away from the user taking any granular responsibility. AND who wants acid spilling out of an overfilled or dropped bike.
but whichever-(and there's gell-cells too) as they get more Modern+Wonderful, so does the accompanying circuitry to recharge them. Every "feature" has a cost.

If going to a lithium battery meant using a shunt R/R, I certainly would not do that. You would be going right back to burning up stator and overstressing the wiring.