Lost all electrics

[1948man]

Electrical stuff just stumps me. I was cranking my 1100G which had been sitting a month (but on a tender) and the cranking abruptly stopped and I lost all lights (and other functions).

1. All fuses are good.
2. I detect no voltage at the main fuse terminal (or any other terminals)
3. The lug on the solenoid that receives the big red cable from the battery shows 12 volts.
3. There is a red wire from that lug on the solenoid that seems to feed the fuse box. I'm wondering if that is the problem

It's crowded in that area as I have a Shindengen R/R stuffed in there. I guess I need to find a way to get in there and test to see if that wire is well connected. Maybe there is a problem inside the fuse box. I cleaned it well when I installed the Shindengren and did the single-point ground.

My first thought was the ignition switch and I have a spare but it seems there would be power to the main 15 amp and breaker and the one below it even if the ignition switch failed.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Steve]

The MAIN fuse is fed directly from the battery. On some bikes, the feed is direct from the positive terminal, on other bikes, it comes from the battery terminal on the starter solenoid. Electrically, they are the same point.

How did you check that "all fuses are good"? Start with a voltmeter or a test light (I prefer a test light for stuff like this), clip it to a ground point, then touch the battery + terminal to verify that it is working. If your fusebox is fed from the solenoid, touch that terminal to verify that it has power. Work your way down the electrical path to the MAIN fuse. Touch both sides. If only one side is 'hot', the fuse is bad. If neither side is 'hot', you lost power between the solenoid and the fuse box. There is a connector inline, check it.

Once you get power on both sides of the MAIN fuse, turn the ignition key ON, check the other fuses (both sides), just to verify.

Electrical stuff is not all that hard if you approach it in a methodical manner. Easiest way to start is to follow the power path, then you can see where it went bad.

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[bitzz]

Bad ground?
What voltage does it show from the positive battery terminal to the engine block?

[Redman]

This is BEST determined using a voltmeter.

If you dont want to use a voltmeter, then about all you can do is wiggle things, and take things apart and put back together. Start with the battery terminals first, and then the fuse block.

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[Steve]

This is BEST determined using a voltmeter.

If you dont want to use a voltmeter, then about all you can do is wiggle things, ...

.

Or use a test light. Much easier and quicker in situations where you don't need to have a number, just whether you have power or not.

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[Redman]

Or use a test light. ....
.

True.


1948man, My main point was: Best to troubleshoot this with some electrical instrument, a meter or a probe-light, something other than your own senses, something that detect presence or absence of about 12 volts DC.

Otherwize will be just randomly messing around wiggling things or taking apart things. Might pass right over the problem without noticing, and/or might spend lot of time messing with things that are not the problem.

[1948man]

Thanks for the replies, I've been away from the computer a while. I should have mentioned that I did use a voltmeter. I did confirm the the battery showed good voltage (12.6), putting the black lead to a good ground pt and the red to battery positive. With the same ground pt and the red lead to either side of any terminal, I show no power. I do get 12 volts at the solenoid post that is fed from the positive battery terminal so I guess there is an interruption somewhere between there and the terminal for the main 15 amp fuse. I didn't see a connector between the solenoid post and the fusebox but will look again. I might not be able to get back to it until tomorrow. Once again, thank for the help and I have been trying to sort through it with logic but was afraid I was missing something. Was I correct the the ignition switch is not a real suspect at this point?

[Steve]

Was I correct the the ignition switch is not a real suspect at this point?

If you have no power at the MAIN fuse, the ignition switch has not yet entered the circuit.

When you DO get power at the main fuse, you can verify status of the ignition switch by monitoring the other three fuses when you turn the switch ON.

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[cowboyup3371]

If you aren't getting power to main fuse before you turn the key on then the ignition switch isn't your issue. That connector could very well be tucked up inside a boot in your harness.

[Redman]

.................... I should have mentioned that I did use a voltmeter. ............

Good that you have meter. Is hard to troubleshoot electrical problems with your eyeballs.

.................... .................................................. ...... I did confirm the the battery showed good voltage (12.6), putting the black lead to a good ground pt and the red to battery positive. .......................

Good. That proves you have good cable connection on the battery-

.................... .
.................................................. .............................With the same ground pt and the red lead to either side of any terminal, I show no power. .............................

I assume you mean any connection on the fuse block or other connections on the wiring harness. But are getting ahead of things.....

....................

.................................I do get 12 volts at the solenoid post that is fed from the positive battery terminal ... ............. ...................?

Good , you have power up to that point, that shows have good cable connections to the battery+

....................

.................................I do get 12 volts at the solenoid post that is fed from the positive battery terminal so I guess there is an interruption somewhere between there and the terminal for the main 15 amp fuse. . ............. ...................?

WHen you say "terminal for the main 15 amp fuse" I suspect you are saying the fuse itself, or remove fuse and probe into the fuse box.
The bike is the 83 1100G, right?
The fuse block has a connector on the bottom. You can get meter probe into the connector beside the wire and will touch the connector on the wire while it is still plugged.
Check for power at the big red wire. That is the wire that should be comming from battery+ thru the wiring harness.
If good there, check the smaller red wire. THat is the wire comming from the Main fuse (and then going to the ignition swtich). THer could be a problem IN the fuse block.
If good there, check the orange wire when turn on the switch to run. That is the wire comming back from the ignition switch (and powers the other 3 fuses).

....................

..................................
.................................................. .I didn't see a connector between the solenoid post and the fusebox but will look again. ............. ...................?

See what Steve said above about that.
But you have already found it:

3. There is a red wire from that lug on the solenoid that seems to feed the fuse box. .

THat wire from the ring terminal on solenoid post goes into wiring harness and comes out to the connector on bottom of fuseblock. One thing though, somewhere in the wiring harness the red wire from the R/R is spliced into that wire, but I doubt that is a problem.

....................
.............
............. Was I correct the the ignition switch is not a real suspect at this point?

You are correct. SUspect ignition switch is have power on big red wire and small red wire, but no power on orange wire when switch is on.



Tell us more what you find.

Sounds like you are doing well.

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[1948man]

electrics. shindengren.jpg

Thanks for all the help. I will dig into this tomorrow and see where things are failing after leaving the hot solenoid post. Things are a little cluttered and I may have to move the R/R to get to the fuse box. The image above shows that area.

[1948man]

If you have no power at the MAIN fuse, the ignition switch has not yet entered the circuit.

When you DO get power at the main fuse, you can verify status of the ignition switch by monitoring the other three fuses when you turn the switch ON.

.

Okay, I had a few minutes to look at things before I leave the house this afternoon and realized some of my readings have been inaccurate. I removed the main fuse and tested the terminal one more time. I got 12 volts to the left side of the terminal (seat?) where the fuse inserts. I have no idea how I missed that before. I turned the key on and got less than a volt to the left side of one of the 10 amp terminals above the Main. I guess the power flows in the left side of the terminals and crosses thru the fuse to go it's merry way. To make matters more fuzzy to me, the battery positive measures 12 volts with key off and less than a volt with key on. Is there a dead short in the ignition switch?. Could the battery have failed so that it shows voltage at rest but almost none when load is supplied? At any rate, I'll get back at it tomorrow and should have a lot of time to devote to it. Also, when I bridged the two posts on the solenoid with some needle nose pliers, I got some minimal spark on the hot post but the starter didn't crank. I can't remember if the key was on when I did that.

[Steve]

Sounds like your battery is TOAST.

Starting with 12 volts is bad enough (should be 12.6-12.8), but dropping to one volt with the key ON is simply no good.

If you have another battery handy, connect it with jumper cables to the bike. If the battery still happens to be mounted in a car (or truck), make sure the engine is NOT running when you do this.

Repeat your checks, you just might be surpised at what you see.

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[1948man]

Sounds like your battery is TOAST.

Starting with 12 volts is bad enough (should be 12.6-12.8), but dropping to one volt with the key ON is simply no good.

If you have another battery handy, connect it with jumper cables to the bike. If the battery still happens to be mounted in a car (or truck), make sure the engine is NOT running when you do this.

Repeat your checks, you just might be surpised at what you see.

.

Bingo. I swapped my battery from the GL into the G and all is well. When the problem first appeared, the bike cranked a little bit and fired briefly before going totally dark. I would have thought there would continue to be some evidence of power such as dim lights or dragging starter with a battery dieing. I continue to learn. I appreciate all the help and maybe this will help another member with a similar scenario. I'm going to order a Motobatt and put it in the G and give the GL the battery that is working now.

[posplayr]

Bingo. I swapped my battery from the GL into the G and all is well. When the problem first appeared, the bike cranked a little bit and fired briefly before going totally dark. I would have thought there would continue to be some evidence of power such as dim lights or dragging starter with a battery dieing. I continue to learn. I appreciate all the help and maybe this will help another member with a similar scenario. I'm going to order a Motobatt and put it in the G and give the GL the battery that is working now.

If you did a Quick Test

https://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?164993-Charging-System-QUICK-TEST

a poor battery would have become immediately evident. This is why most riders now have a voltmeter permanently installed on the handlebar. As soon as you turn on the key you can see if the battery is pulled below 11V that that is bad.